AIBU to ask you to explain the 21+ like I’m 5?

[Donotfitin]

We’re moving to London in a few years and we’d like to time it for when our DS is due to start secondary school, we’d prefer he attends a grammar school.
He’s currently in Y1, so when would we have to move so he can take the 11+? It’s my understanding that’s he’d have to attend from Y6 in a primary within the catchment area. TIA!

What’s stopping you from just moving sooner in primary school so he can make friends etc? Do you need to leave it as late as possible?

We’re waiting for his older siblings to graduate from secondary school/ sixth form.

When does the youngest graduate?

they're in Y9, Y10, Y13, but there’s the possibility to leave the one in Y9 with her DM for the last year.

You're probably best off looking at the policy of the specific schools you're interested in. There isn't one blanket rule for all schools. Admissions criteria will be on their websites and I'm sure if you send an email/call them they'd be happy to explain in more detail.

Of course that will be the current policy and there is nothing to say it won't change in the next few years so you'll need to keep an eye on any developments.

London grammar schools are extremely competitive. In terms of tutoring you're best off starting early but being very gentle with it rather than leaving it late and then panicking.

When I say tutoring I don't necessarily mean getting a tutor, but be aware of what skills are needed for the 11+ and make sure you're doing what you can (in a fun, relaxed) way to push them now. For example, make sure you're doing lots of active reading, focussing on comprehension type questions/discussions, read a wide range of books etc.

my friend had a house in the uk and then moved to emirates for her hubbies work - her daughter sat 11 plus at an exam centre and then was able to get a grammar school place by moving back to uk during application period.

you have to research timings, my friends son came later and because he was away for X period was no longer considered a uk resident and had to pay international fees for first year

There are relatively few grammar schools in London so if it's important to you, you need to check each local authority's website to see what they do. And of course, policies can change. Schools in inner London are closing all the time because the child population is declining

Some schools use the national 11+ exam. Some schools have there own exam.
Exams are sat at the very beginning of year 6.
They are very competitive. For example the local boys grammar to me takes only 120 pupils. 1200 applied so only 10% got in.

The two that I liked have their own exams.

I only clicked on this because I wondered what 21+ was! 😂

You might want to keep an eye on this thread which shows what the atmosphere in feeder schools for grammars can be like

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5508945-aibu-to-think-the-sats-11-pressure-is-nuts

School applications need to be in by end of Oct in year 6 so you'll need to have moved in year 5 latest.

I would start tutoring in year 4.

I’m aware of that, but I thrived in a similar system.

I know it’s not the same but for example everybody says the IB is challenging and too much work and I thought it was a piece of cake…

All I’m saying is that I’m willing to give it a try.

Well if he prefers a grammar he'll probably need a tutor. I know I did for private 11+. But it's difficult to say for your child as they're so young.

But I only had them for about 1-2 years during the last years of primary. Unless he goes to a private prep school in which case they probably always train them adequately for 11+.
Though grammar and private have slightly different exams.

I remember doing about 6. This was for private though as we didn't have grammar schools in our area.

So it's not something you need to start worrying about for quite a long time. But you'll need to be living in the catchment area of the grammar school obviously.

There's not that many Grammar Schools in London.
Surely you'd be better to live somewhere like Kent or Buckinghamshire.

If your child is only year 1 then it's a while,at least year 3/4 before you will get a decent idea as to whether they could pass grammar entry and whether it's the right fit for them, and even if they will want to go there. A bright 5 year olds academic profile may look very different at 9/10 years old, and the brightest at year 1 in DD's now year 5 class are now very much middle of the class academically, not the top 10% needed for grammar. Others who have been less pressured have taken the top spots. The 11+ process is stressful and places strain on the family, most 9 year olds want to be playing with their mates rather than doing tutoring.

We live in a grammar area (Bucks), moving here when DD's were 4 and 1, so secondaries weren't something we were thinking about. If I had known more, I think we may not have moved here. DH and I, and both our girls are very able academically, but we have concerns about her going to the all girls grammar she has her heart set on. It's a fantastic school, with great facilities and great results, but we don't feel its the right fit for her having visited and knowing many families with girls there. Part of me hopes she doesn't pass the 11+, so the decision is taken away, as it would be hard for us to tell her no if she does pass.

Schools will also change in this time becoming better or worse.

But to answer your question - yes, would need to be living in catchment by start of year 6. But would suggest moving start year 5, to get a feel for the local schools, and so they can settle in before taking the test. The tutoring you will likely need will start from beginning of year 5, and tutors local to area would be much better at knowing what's needed

Be very careful how you frame this though, telling a child you are moving to get them into grammar places way too much pressure on them. It's needs to be move for the family as a whole rather than just for a school.

The 11+ takes place in the first couple of weeks of September term in year 6. You have to apply to do it in summer term of year 5.

There are a few different 11+ exams, depending on area. I think London is just called the 11+. In Kent it is the Kent test, and areas within Kent also do backup tests e.g. the Folkestone grammars also have the Shepway test, and you are eligible to apply for a place at the school if your child passes either the Kent or Shepway test.

We live in Kent. Most kids round here will get a place if they pass the Kent test, in London I don't think a pass is a guarantee. So we also get a lot of kids commuting to school in Kent from London.

Most of the kids taking it will have had some level of tutoring and in London that might be a lot of tutoring. Some private primaries also gear their teaching towards passing the test, whilst state primaries aren't allowed to do so.

You can get practice books and tests so they get used to the way of thinking e.g. the non verbal reasoning test is all about spotting patterns/ counting sides and spots and roatating shapes in your mind. One of DD's friends had never done this before the test and broke down in tears because she didn't know what to do.

I tried to keep the preparation fairly relaxed. DS passed well with minimal effort. My mum is a retired teacher so she did an hour a week with DD throughout year 5, sometimes with a view to the test but other times just filling the gaps as there were a few areas that were weaker than they should have been possibly due to the missed Covid years which seemed to affect DD's year group more than DS's. Over the summer we had a few weeks complete break. I then did a couple of 10-minute practice tests with her most days of the last few weeks of the holiday. She was pretty relaxed going into the test saying she wanted to see what it would be like and she passed comfortably.

Yeah, but I’ve lived in Bucks, and I know I wouldn’t be able to get what I “want” from London. Unless it’s somewhere like Beaconsfield (but I didn’t love it there TBH).

I agree, Beaconsfield is just like any other town, but much more pricey. The surrounding villages are much nicer.

We're not London grammar but we are in a competitive area for places and my advice would be a reputable tutor to start working with DC throughout all of year 5, at the latest (as the test is sat a couple of weeks into year 6).

It is worth noting that good tutors may test in year 4 and are happy to refuse kids they don't feel will pass.

Yes, that's brutal BUT the whole system is. Arguably the kids shouldn't be using tutors anyway but in the real World the vast majority of kids are using an 11+ tutoring service and they will be at an advantage - not where you want to be when places are so hard to get.

It is becoming increasingly hard to get a spot now that more kids are sitting the test in the hopes of avoiding increased private fees due to taxes and they are happy to pay a high price for a good tutor if it saves them hundreds of thousands in the long term!

Make sure you familiarise yourself with the council/borough key dates and catchments. If they are anything like ours, no places have been offered to out of catchment kids for years.

There is a general 11+ forum where you might find it more effective to ask questions as they have boards for areas and individual schools.

11 Plus Exams Forum - Index page

It's a bitch of a process but worth it if it goes well and DC is a good fit for the school.

I would advise reaching out to other Mums of kids sitting the test, once you've moved. Some will have been through the process before with older kids and know the local tutors etc.

That's a good point, high demand tutors will ask children to sit tests in year 4 to even be allowed into their wait lists - they say it's so parents don't waste their money if a child unlikely to pass. I think its so they keep their pass percentages up. My daughter had to sit a test in March of year 4 to be a accepted for September year 5 with her in demand tutor.
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So OP if you are really serious about this you probably have to move early year 4

That would be virtually impossible. The youngest (of the oldest) would only starting 6th form, and the middle one would be just half way through.

If you know which schools you like, you could start online tutoring before you move?
it sounds like you’ve got very high hopes for grammar, though. Whats your back up if they don’t get in?

I guess we’d rent first, see if he can get in, and if not, move to Wimbledon and just send him to a private one.