AIBU to ask you to explain the 21+ like I’m 5?

[Donotfitin]

We’re moving to London in a few years and we’d like to time it for when our DS is due to start secondary school, we’d prefer he attends a grammar school.
He’s currently in Y1, so when would we have to move so he can take the 11+? It’s my understanding that’s he’d have to attend from Y6 in a primary within the catchment area. TIA!

Or sending him to a religious one in north London, he’s on the waiting list and given we’ve been paying our dues, he should have a place, but that’s a completely different can of worms

Those that have gone or going through the process are just advising what you would need to do to give your child a decent chance of passing (based on them being extremely academically able which you wont know yet).

Before we went through it we didn't understand the time frames around it either. I got a scholarship to a private school, there was no prep, just turned up on the entrance exam day and told by my parents to do my best, and I naively thought 11+ would be the same. But it really isn't. There is a year or 2 of prep needed before taking, ideally in the area where the schools are which you are hoping to attend and each area is different in terms of what's the tests cover, especially the school administered ones.

I’m absolutely up for tutoring, and would 100% invest in it, but would have to be done virtually

If you’re wedded to state selective education, London is not the place for you - very few schools and incredibly competitive. I advise as a mother whose child went through the process and a secondary teacher of more than 20 years in London. Many friends who have been through it from both ends too.
I would say that a really clever child with 2+ years of specific tutoring stands a chance. Anything else - forget it. You have absolutely no way of knowing at this point whether or not your young child will be in that category so I suggest getting the funds together for private school or to move to one of those pockets of London where property prices are elevated because of a perceived superior state option. (And that situation can change rapidly with a change of leadership, for example - I taught in a London school that was RI and Outstanding according to OFSTED just a handful of years apart. Local property prices fluctuated, unsurprisingly, as a result.)

That's such a lot of pressure to put on a child.

London is the place for me, but I’m also trying to figure out what’s the best option for our DS (within London)

You need to look at the admissions policies of the schools. I work at a girls grammar where there’s some places for catchment and some regardless of catchment.

I think times have changed. I thought the 11+ was a piece of cake, had no tutoring and went to a top London Grammar School. All this talk of tutoring from year 4 baffles me. There is so much pressure nowadays.

You cannot possibly know, with a child in y1, whether they will thrive at a grammar. 90% of kids do not get a grammar place. Your plan is foolish.

It is much more likely that either (a) you move to a grammar catchment area. Your child does not get a top 10% score, and goes to a school which is worse than an ordinary comprehensive because all the brightest 10% who would otherwise have been there setting a good example will be elsewhere or (b) in an effort to avoid the above you cram your child through years of tutoring to get a top score and your child gets a place but is utterly miserable because its not a pace he can sustain for years

Fine. But I’m pointing out to you that you have no idea what will be best for your child in half a decade as you have no idea how academically able they will be. Aiming for selective in London is naive at best.

I tried to keep the preparation fairly relaxed. DS passed well with minimal effort. My mum is a retired teacher so she did an hour a week with DD throughout year 5, sometimes with a view to the test but other times just filling the gaps as there were a few areas that were weaker than they should have been possibly due to the missed Covid years which seemed to affect DD's year group more than DS's. Over the summer we had a few weeks complete break. I then did a couple of 10-minute practice tests with her most days of the last few weeks of the holiday. She was pretty relaxed going into the test saying she wanted to see what it would be like and she passed comfortably.

All great advice. Best to take the stress on yourself and keep things as calm as possible for DC.

It is worth noting that the tutor, in their hour a week, does pretty much what is described here - identifies and works on weaker areas and teaches the things on the test that aren't covered in the NC (eg all elements of Year 6 Maths may come up in the test, even though the test is taken just 2-3 weeks into the year).

The 10 minute tests books are good. Good tutors often pay to buy Mock tests from the companies who write the tests and get a heads up of new question types introduced that year.

The elevenplusexams website and forum is good.

I don’t know my ex husband got traumatised for life…. but if we had stayed in Bucks he would have wanted one for our daughter….

In SW London the grammars are in Sutton & Kingston. There are also schools with selective streams.

For the Sutton & Kingston grammars it’s very normal to start tutoring from yr 4.

Some don’t have any catchment & some are based on area/postcode.

It is much more likely that either (a) you move to a grammar catchment area. Your child does not get a top 10% score, and goes to a school which is worse than an ordinary comprehensive because all the brightest 10% who would otherwise have been there setting a good example will be elsewhere

That's not really true for the London boroughs as there are some great non selective options but catchments are usually tight & expensive.

You mention religion OP, if catholic there are some good options.

The grammars in my part of London are super selective, so there is no catchment area. They simply cream off the top performing students.

You have to be exceptionally bright to stand a chance. It’s not simply a question of passing the test, then moving to a grammar.

Surely if you have older chikdren you are familiar with 11+, IB vs A level etc. IB suits some, A levels others or even preU , Btecs and T levels. Why is your youngest circumstances so different ? If you are taking current y9 with you the obvious time to move is when they are entering y12.

I agree.

I’d just like to echo that passing the eleven plus doesn’t guarantee a place.

No, we’re not taking current Y9 with us. Current Y10 is doing the IB for example.

Over here we have no selective schools and our best choice is the IB (in my opinion but I’m obviously biased too!)

The idea of trying to get him into a grammar school
comes from thinking that it’s the best education we can aim for (that’s free) in London.

He’s only 6 and enjoys doing maths for fun, so I think it’s just keeping encouraging that (plus the tutor at some point).

If you have lived in bucks you would be familiar with marlow where children have access to a number of grammar schools - your son could fly back to do the 11 plus exam at the exam centre in High Wycombe (I think they do it at High Wycombe uni) my friends child did this. Just get an online tutor from tutorful or mytutor or ask education board for recommendations

there are private schools in High Wycombe that offer the IB

No, we’re not Catholic. The school in question is cross-communal (or cross denominational) but as much they say they take secular children, I think our DS would feel very much like he might not belong there. The foster report is mix of good and outstanding, so I think it’s decent enough academically.

Yes, but as a former Bucks resident, I wouldn’t move back. I would only consider Amersham ( I quite liked Princes Risborough and the Chalfonts) but to ME and from what I want, they’re just too far from central London.

This.
Only handful of them in London itself, and entry is crazy-competitive!

Sorry, I may have missed it but are you not resident in UK at the moment. Just you had previously mentioned living in Bucks. Very few schools in UK, and even fewer state schools, offer IB before the diploma level (as sixth form alternative to A level). Vast majority of pupils still take gcses at year 11. If any of your dc wanted to transfer at that point you would need to liaise with the new school to ensure they met the entry level. Even in London relatively few state schools are academically selective and those that are are located some distance apart. You apply in October year 6 having taken tests in the September, but registering for 11+ exams and the eligible address used for an application may need to be established well before then.

Why London? And what is wrong with an excellent comprehensive?