Resident doctors synicsl strike again

[uneffingbelievable]

The resident doctors have once again announced a 6 day strike to co incide with a bank holiday weekend.

Whilst I support fair pay and working conditions I have lost all sympathy with them. This is not poverty when you are being paid as a whole package 40-95000 gross on a 44 hr week depending on your seniority.

The arguments about lack of jobs did not stack up with more jobs going to home graduates than IMGS despite the hysteria and a huge number of home graduates not even bothering to apply.

They are coming across as tone deaf and entitled or am I missing something.

😮 I've told DD that she is being severely underpaid as an ST1 !

And your rudeness towards F1s is quite frankly disgusting from a so called consultant (who is PAID to train them and support them).

DD will repay over £250,000. Please explain the subsidy ???

It is thus far hypothetical

Compared to whom?

Amongst the G7 nations, only Germany has a higher average salary for resident doctors.

In America salaries are set by individual hospitals and a few of the elite are higher, but many are lower. All those jobs you and former BMA spokesperson Dr Melissa Ryan referred to on previous threads paying very high salaries are not resident doctor jobs.

They are service jobs that are advertised internationally because even with the promise of debt forgiveness Americans are not taking them. They are not career progressing or pathway jobs.

Germany is the 3rd most successful global economy, behind America and China. California is the 4th. Of course Germany and America can offer some better experiences to medical residents than the UK.

@mumsneedwine all day people have been discussing and even disagreeing civilly on this thread. Within a couple of posts you have started calling a poster rude, and implying that she is lying when she says she is a consultant. Give it a rest.

I do think it's perfectly possible to teach and support juniors while privately thinking that some of them are mentally negligible.

Of course undergraduates in any discipline, in any university in the land, are a mixed lot.

The standard offer in my School is higher than AAA and it quickly becomes apparent that some of our students are weak. They aren’t particularly those on contextual offers. It is to do with depth of understanding, I think.

Though I think @Marchesman makes many points worthy of further analysis, it may be worth mentioning that our students on COs have degree classification outcomes statistically equivalent to the rest. Of course we are but one rather strong school and most of these students are still entering with AAA plus a lot of stamina so they may not be the cohort she is concerned about.

Some of us have been working all day.

And not sure where I've said they are lying ??? Have said they are rude about the F1s they are paid to support - which is strange behaviour from a consultant. And sad.

I wonder why they bother to work in the NHS with such intellectually inferior UKGs...

Completely agree.

I am Russell Group, and my colleagues have variable feelings towards students.

All agree that students are owed a professional standard of behaviour. How we feel about them, and I write as someone who is largely but not wholly sympathetic (no one is, realistically), is not their concern.

@Marchesman has never suggested less than a professional attitude towards students on MumsNet. Her private opinions are no trainee’s concern. If you can be frank on this thread, and you certainly are, why can’t she?

I could very well be wrong and I am going out on a limb here, but it appears to me that @Marchesman gains her primary professional satisfaction from other aspects of her career than interacting with medical students. In the same way, for the large majority of RG academics our passion is research. That’s why I’ve drawn a possibly shaky analogy.

The post I’ve quoted sounds like it was written by a proud parent with little understanding of the spectrum of a consultant’s professional life.

According to March who said STs are on £80k !!!!

'F1s could strike and no one would notice'. Personally I think that's pretty rude.

And there is history. Lots of other comments have been made that are derogatory to younger doctors. V v sad.

Nothing to do with my DD, she's doing great thanks.

And F1s are not students. They are fully qualified doctors.

UK universities £43-66k 5 yrs tuition fees - depending where you study.
Everybody has to pay rent, food etc. so to include those costs which I presume you are is not the point.

www.theukcatpeople.co.uk/post/uk-medical-school-tuition-fees-for-international-students-to-study-medicine?srsltid=AfmBOoqrf_M4osJ6imry5BvFMiYTkU89OBFAS9Oajvtxn8-vc5gnmbdK

Marchesam - the trust grade jobs currently loathed by purple and mums as being inferior and not delivering training will be re badges as training posts and the cost of them will be born by the Trust as they are now.
There will be no extra monies for these 1000 posts -so the funding for the posts from the Deanery will be diluted over in my departments case 12 resident doctors rather than the 4 it funds at the moment. The trust will make up the rest - cost neutral.
Same jobs just re badged - it is just semantics.

Strike on loan interest payments and the idiocy of a system that asks an adult to apply for a job and be sent anywhere in the country from Scotland to cornwall irrespective of where you trained have family etc. Now that is lunacy and treats resident doctors like shit! It is in place though to ensure the less popular locations get trainees and do not become IMG enclaves which has happened in the past.

Yes, If only F1 s went on strike the impact on services would be much lower. They are heavily supervised ( or should be) and aren't fully registered until they successfully complete their first year. But no union would ever suggest that as a course of action anyway, because it would be low impact.

F1s are not fully qualified doctors - they have provisional registration dependent on the successful completion of foundation training!
Which is why they are rarely left in charge of whole wards without back up form both nurses and fellow doctors. The majority of decisions are checked and agreed/signed off before they are executed. aS they gain experience they are trusted to do things without having to be told every single detail.
It is gratifying to watch -scared shitless F1s on a ward round in August and by the time you get to Xmas, some - not all - are more confident and able to start intitiating decisions that are sensible, correct and execute them.

It is one of the honours of our jobs in the NS where we see colleagues grow and evolve infront of us. Different times and different routes to get there but is one of the bits of my job I love the most.

The point that I made about no one noticing if only F1s were striking was that it would not affect hospital activity; clinics and theatre lists would be unchanged. There would be no political fallout - and therefore little to be gained from them withdrawing their labour.

Clearly their F2/CTs would notice, but F1s receive a lot of direction and teaching which takes time and often it's faster to do something oneself if one is working closely with them, regardless of their calibre (which is however variable due to selection occurring later).

The £80k figure is the average paid to STs last year, from NHS Staff Annual Earnings Estimates. Actually it was £79021. Mea culpa.

Sorry, cross-posted.

Thanks. I assumed that is what will happen; and I agree with your point about seeing people develop.

You are brutally frank here, anonymously, towards many. I assume that your standards for face to face interactions would be different.

Why not assume others are capable of the same dichotomy?

Besides, neither @Marchesman nor anyone else has spoken badly of F1s as a whole, though someone else said they do need an awful ot of training up. I cannot see that you or I are in a position to judge.

Without going into the underlying causes or knowing which are the weakest students, I take @Marchesman ’s point that some medical students will be weak.A 75% pause rate (after F2) as documented in the 2024 GMC report is troubling. (These are the ones not applying for further training immediately)

We have weak students in every discipline. We turn out weak PhDs every Why pretend medical students and trainees are different?

Honesty is not a sign of disrespect.

Edit: we turn out weak PhDs every year, in every discipline, in every university. Meaning that the work is not of a quality to advance a career.

Nope. My face to face would be the same. If you are paid to train and support doctors then you owe them respect and not treating them like an annoyance of no worth. All if them. Not the select few you like.

They are fully qualified doctors. And the NHS uses them as such.