Husband’s female colleague’s issue being taken very seriously.

[Sweetmarzipan]

So background. DH works in a fairly male dominated industry.

When he first started in this company he would be away fairly often. One or two nights away every 4/6 weeks. One week in April and the odd conference.

I almost always went with him if I could for no other reason than the free hotel. If there were other colleagues they would have have their spouses with them as well. We became friends with many of them and still socialise. Irrelevant to my post but we always had separate bills and we never exploited expenses and we never saw other colleagues do this either but obviously the room was the same price regardless of occupancy.

Covid came along and other ways of doing things came about so audits etc were done remotely and these trips are now few and far between.

Last week I did join him for the first time in probably 6 months. He was leaving the centre with a male colleague in his fifties and a female colleague (mid thirties but I don’t know if anyone will find ages relevant) who had joined the company around three to six months ago (DH and colleague differ on the dates).

As they left to check into hotel the female colleague asked if they were eating, but they said that they had their wives with them and the male colleague said that she was welcome to join them but she declined. We had booked a pub meal on our own.

They were all together on Friday but over the weekend she has made a complaint suggesting that I and the other colleague’s wife had deliberately tagged along as they believed she would be unprofessional and inappropriate.

An email has now gone out saying that spouses are no longer able to tag along.

Colleague was spoken to face to face and the bosses did seem apologetic. DH was on a site and saw the email and was phoned by one of the directors again with apologies.

Surely she should have been told about the culture of the company. I am really gobsmacked. Two other wives have texted me this morning and they feel the same. We had a really nice lifestyle there which is bound to have created a nice work environment.

I wonder what would be the situation were a partner use a wheelchair, and found themselves excluded on that basis ?

Seems I've led a pretty wild life compared to some ....

I can see both sides, because I would feel so awkward with my colleagues bringing their spouses, and me stuck on my own. No one wants to be the third wheel, and she probably felt left out.

Your DH and his colleagues should put in a complaint that staying away from home is stressful and puts pressure on relationships. that it is unreasonable that their colleagues paranoia should result in a policy that has negative impacts on their social and emotional wellbeing.

Who sent the email saying spouses are banned from work trips? Who made the decision? (Since the directors are having to apologise for it, presumably wasn't them?)

All it needed was for whoever it was that the female employee complained to to explain to her that's how it's always been done at this company and it isn't wives supervising their husbands because there's now a female colleague.

To uphold her complaint is to agree with the assertion that the male employees are predatory and can't be trusted to work away without their wives keeping them from straying. Which is pretty offensive. It's almost like the female employee was annoyed that she wasn't able to seduce a married colleague on the business trip (perhaps that's what she's used to in previous jobs).

These things are nice while it lasts but the first sign of trouble and it’s shut down. A shame but everyone’s still in a job and that’s the main thing!

This wasn't a bonding experience it was work, you may be with people you know and might have dinner with, you might be with people you don't know or people you would prefer not to have dinner with, like the well known letch of the group. There is no compulsion to socialise with colleagues after work. And she was invited to join one couple and declined, no one has to baby sit her. If it was a man saying it wasn't fair that the women brought their husbands no one would sympathise.

We have only the two early posts from OP and they do not hang together very well IMO.
Some of us have suggested that the episode may have been more nuanced.

As a happily married woman in STEM who has been the unwarranted object of suspicion, as many of us were in the bad old days, I find your last sentence to be a large and offensive leap of illogic.

I think the issue is there are different types of work trip - team bonding events, or conferences where there are specific evening requirements to mix with colleagues then that would be weird to have spouses.

Working away where it’s simply about being in a different location for working hours then why would it be odd for spouses to be there.

Going up to a hotel room and spending the evening with your spouse is no different from going home to your house and spending the evening with your spouse.

Yes, you might occasionally choose to have a drink or a meal with colleagues when away from home if you are all stranded away from home and don’t want to eat alone.

But you might have old friends in town and choose to go out with them. You might prefer to eat alone and zoom with your family all night in your room.

The complaint itself is very bizarre. The female colleague felt that the only reason the spouses were there was because they thought she was some sort of threat to their marriage.

Unless something has been lost in translation via HR, I would tell your husband OP to be very careful around this new colleague.

I have worked places where a guest can stay with you on business trips if there is no incremental cost. This was especially appreciated when work trips straddled weekends or there was an option to add a day of annual leave onto the end of a business trip and travel back a day later.

However, there has always been an understanding that the (non employee) guest would do their own thing at weekday breakfast and dinner so that the employees can network together.

I did hear at one old workplace that someone had taken along a partner who had joined for breakfast and dinner and this was stopped by the senior colleague on the team as it had made the other employees uncomfortable. The implication was that they had been made to feel as if they were encroaching on a personal trip - rather than the reality that the partner was tagging along on a work trip.

I think your husband and his colleague could have avoided this scenario if they had been more self aware. It is normal on a business trip when dinner is being reimbursed by work to dine with colleagues.

It depends on company culture. DH previous company encouraged spouses to join as it was seen as a perk of the company. I was able to travel to countries I otherwise would not have been able to go to and stay in beatiful hotels. It was great!

I occasionally travel with him now if he’s going to NYC and there’s a broadway show I want to see. But mostly I stay with the children and DH keeps his travel to just one night away from the children, which is impressive when it means a flight to NYC, Boston or LA.

I thought you were going to say she felt left out which would be understandable. The reason for the complaint is a bit odd. But regardless it was a good perk while it lasted…. and now it’s gone. It’s not unfair to you, you don’t work for the company, you were never entitled to it. Of course an employer will prioritise the morale of an employee over people’s wives. It will promote inclusion within the team, give it a few trips and you won’t be missed, they will have their own little friendship group and socialise more closely with each other.

His work really cannot dictate this. He’s only being paid for this working hours, and they can’t control who visits him for dinner. They can maybe say who gets to stay overnight in the hotel but then they’d need to also make the rule a blanket policy - so no single staff can meet someone in a bar and take them back to their room.

If they’re saying that he cannot have dinner with someone coming to visit then he needs to be paid for that time. They need to pay for every hour he is in that hotel, not just working hours, since they’re dictating how he can spend that time.

I think there is more to this... maybe she is having an affair with one of the guys?

im guessing it would not go down well for the next event if you book separately but then still meet up for lunch ect ? (unless you did it mi9 style and kept it secret)

If they’re not being paid for their time outside of working hours then his boss cannot make rules about who he has dinner with. I’d stay well away from that woman. She’s going to find herself with no one at work who wants to socialise with her.

Same. I'm the one in our relationship who occasionally travels for work. DH would HATE to come along and I'd hate to have him there too. Not coz I'm off doing something I shouldn't, but because my colleagues & I go for dinner in the evenings after the work day and DH wouldn't enjoy that. As well as discussing the events of the day / planning strategy for the next day, it's also a chance to bond with colleagues outside of the office environment. ( * ) I couldn't image telling my colleagues that I couldn't meet up with them because I had a date with my DH.
( * ) None of us have shagged each other yet!

I've got mixed feelings.Since I retired I have been with DH a few times when he has been working abroad. But I have only been if he is either going to be completely alone in the evenings or it's a big conference or meeting where there are going to be loads of people around. DH likes the company if he's travelling alone and if the work finishes at a weekend or he can take leave we've been known to stay on for a day or two to do some sight seeing together afterwards.
I pay my own way apart from the room which is the same cost whether I'm there or not (and he always asks the company beforehand) and I keep well clear of the work side of things. If there are any after work dinners I just eat on my own in the hotel.
However I wouldn't go if he was travelling with one or a small number of colleagues, even though I know quite a few of them and they probably wouldn't mind. I think it would still potentially be a bit disruptive or awkward for the others. And I never go on "ordinary" work trips in this country. I have absolutely no desire to share a Premier Inn breakfast with one of DH's junior staff when the two of them are visiting a supplier in Northampton.
I think it's ok as an occasional thing if the company know and agree and the accompanying spouse keeps themselves largely to themselves. DH's company get a lot of unpaid work out of him and they know it. Facilitating what amounts to two slightly discounted city breaks for me in the last three years when he was abroad on his own is a very easy way for them to keep him happy. But I think you do have to be considerate to any other people on work trips. If I was away with a few colleagues and the others had all brought their spouses along I wouldn't be very comfortable, certainly not if it was a regular occurrence. Context is important.

My partner’s company always allows partner/another to join if the room is the same rate. Partners pay for meals etc. Some evenings my partner is expected to go out for a meal with colleagues. I stay in the hotel room on those nights. Other nights he has free time so we go out with whoever we want. It’s not compulsory to socialise with work colleagues. I thought this was the norm.

It feels very 1980's for wives to be available for husband's work trips, it probably should have gone out with car phones. You'll have to trust him now!

going forward it ives a very clear indication of the type of issues that could arise from this person. It is a very loud message to your dh to be extremely careful

This is so weird. I've often tagged on to my huband's work trips if he's going somewhere interesting. Either a couple of days at the end or during the trip, I did my own thing in the day and joined them in the evenings. Last time his colleagues knew his meeting had over run over and texted me which pub they were all in so I went there after my flight had got in.

Other partners turn up too.

He's tagged on to my trips, and either done his own thing or hung out with me and my colleagues...

Blimey have all these wives not got kids or jobs? Seems odd to me to go on almost every trip.

I can see her point and good for her for raising it.

Shes working in a male dominated environment as it is and now her evenings working away are being spent with males and their partners. I would wouldn't be happy with that.

They can, to a point. But it must be a done thing as HMRC have a section on it: Work expenses for spouses accompanying employees on business trips (480: Chapter 10)