Husband’s female colleague’s issue being taken very seriously.

[Sweetmarzipan]

So background. DH works in a fairly male dominated industry.

When he first started in this company he would be away fairly often. One or two nights away every 4/6 weeks. One week in April and the odd conference.

I almost always went with him if I could for no other reason than the free hotel. If there were other colleagues they would have have their spouses with them as well. We became friends with many of them and still socialise. Irrelevant to my post but we always had separate bills and we never exploited expenses and we never saw other colleagues do this either but obviously the room was the same price regardless of occupancy.

Covid came along and other ways of doing things came about so audits etc were done remotely and these trips are now few and far between.

Last week I did join him for the first time in probably 6 months. He was leaving the centre with a male colleague in his fifties and a female colleague (mid thirties but I don’t know if anyone will find ages relevant) who had joined the company around three to six months ago (DH and colleague differ on the dates).

As they left to check into hotel the female colleague asked if they were eating, but they said that they had their wives with them and the male colleague said that she was welcome to join them but she declined. We had booked a pub meal on our own.

They were all together on Friday but over the weekend she has made a complaint suggesting that I and the other colleague’s wife had deliberately tagged along as they believed she would be unprofessional and inappropriate.

An email has now gone out saying that spouses are no longer able to tag along.

Colleague was spoken to face to face and the bosses did seem apologetic. DH was on a site and saw the email and was phoned by one of the directors again with apologies.

Surely she should have been told about the culture of the company. I am really gobsmacked. Two other wives have texted me this morning and they feel the same. We had a really nice lifestyle there which is bound to have created a nice work environment.

Bad habit ;)

Sorry, I'm still a bit phobic of business acronyms after 15 years at a place where they were very popular.
My best/worst was when some woman said we should focus on "solutionizing". That's probably why I'm freelance now lol.

I think you are muddling a week on a hotel based-jolly with having to visit another city to work, possibly in your own company office or at a clients?

The company is not ‘paying for the trip’ - they are expensing overnight accommodation (and meals that would cost more than the employee would spend on his M&S supper shared with his wife at home) all so that the employee can do is day job in that location. How they spend their evenings in the accommodation is none of the company’s business and probably an invasion of privacy to ask or impose rules. I know of people who, if they go to certain cities where they have family/friends, they stay with them instead of expensing a hotel. All perfectly normal.

Obviously if they are at a conference, representing their company/industry, and there are evening events/awards ceremonies etc there are different expectations but no wives would tag along to that unless there were spouse events. I did actually event-manage a business conference in Italy for my Bank where wives were expressly invited and tours arranged for them in the day and a black tie dinner in the evening which included them, but that was 25 years ago and a rare set up even back then.

No, I think if they want to visit such places together then they should arrange a holiday to those places. Work trips are for work. A spouse should not be present.

That’s what holidays are for, not work trips.

I’m not muddling anything. There’s no difference between ‘paying for’ and ‘expensing’.

Interesting. I was never allowed to put alcohol on any evening dinner expenses. And with a meal allowance of £25 per evening, if we had been allowed it would have been of paintstripper quality!

I think it’s so odd in this environment how married people are to what their entitlements are. People keep repeating 9-5 and my time etc.

If I go on a trip I’ll leave my evenings open for colleagues or the client, or if I’m tired I’ll get room service. I go on the trip to work and that’s what I’m thinking about. Not to say I’d never go sightseeing or have my OH visit, but not every trip.

The headlines this morning of full of stories of mass redundancies due to AI, and Iran. And people are talking about taking early retirement & work trips to see the world. If I manage not to be laid off before retirement I’ll
open a bottle of champagne. It makes me feel like I live on another planet!

They aren’t paying half.
Chain hotels don’t have single rooms.
Company pay say £100 for a room with a double bed. Makes no difference if one person in bed or he’s joined by wife to cost of room.
He will get room covered, mileage and a food allowance for him. She pays own food.
DH’s meal allowance wouldn’t cover a full bottle of wine and food so no never done that.

Yes I’m sure it never happens.

Just off the top of my head:

Reputational risk if a spouse misbehaves/does anything illegal while staying somewhere on the company’s time

Insurance risk if the anything happens to the spouse during the trip (insurance is usually built in to work trips booked through travel providers but would not cover spouses)

Financial risk as at the very minimum it will create an additional administrative burden to ensure that company funds are not being used to support spouse travel/subsistence in any way which could be flagged in audits etc.

Risk to company culture as it may make other employees feel uncomfortable (as has been the case here)

I could go on.

I can't see a requirement to have dinner with your colleagues when you're traveling for work in the situation OP is describing being something a company can legally require of its staff. Can you imagine the difficulties that could bring up if you have a vegan colleague and someone who will only eat at a steak restaurant. A healthnut and Maccies devotee. Or someone who won't eat in an establishment that serves alcohol when everyone else just wants a drink. Etc. Would be crazy to require it.

And, in any case, that isn't what they've done. They aren't directing their staff to do something as part of their work, they are telling them what they can't do with their own time outside of the work.

You are wasting your time. The grown ups left this thread early on 😀

Same. Yes we can all stick rigidly to the 9-5 rule when on a work trip but I’ve found work trips are the best time to talk to colleagues, build camaraderie and enhance group dynamics. A bit difficult to do that when spouses are present.

Rubbish you do realise there referring to time in the evening which is there own personal time NOT company time where they are free to do what ever they want want

Haha yeah you’re probably right - I’m just baffled by this thread to be honest. There’s a lot of strange behaviour in some companies that’s for sure!

Maybe she has, the 2 are not mutually exclusive.
I had a very well paid job of my own and did plenty of travelling . But when you are the one doing the working you get to see the airport, the hotel, wherever you are working and usually not much more. And having children at home often precludes staying on for sightseeing afterwards. I am now happily (early) retired and our children are all adults so if my DH is going somewhere that is of interest to me I will happily join him if it's possible. I could go on my own and indeed I do go on solo trips and travel with other people but shock, horror, DH and I quite like each other and enjoy each other's company. Now we don't have children at home we sometimes book a couple of days more at our own expense and explore places together once his business is over. After all, we are always being told we should be minimising air travel so surely it makes more sense that if he's working in Paris or Berlin we tack a short break on to the end than make a separate trip to visit those places at a different time?
It's pretty mysoginistic to assume that the only reason a woman might travel with her spouse is because she doesn't have the wherewithal to do it independently.

All the better if you can combine them. I spent a lovely six weeks in a beautiful European city with DH last year and we thoroughly enjoyed his days off together, and no-one died.

I am not sure whether the OP will be returning to this thread.

The outcome of the change in policy may depend on what sort of trips they are. Is going on a work trip for this company considered interesting and prestigious? Or is it something that the employees could do without but do because it isn’t too bad if they can bring their spouses?

If it is the second, they may find that they get a bit of pushback when they decide that they need three of the team to go to Leeds for a week to review a client’s computer files (say).

OP says it in her OP “we had a really nice lifestyle there” - tagging along on work trips - which became the workplace culture. I don’t think this is healthy or very professional. It’s exclusionary and old boys club vibes.

Yes. I agree.

How do they not have those risks for anything an employee might do while away from home for work without banning all non-company socialising while away? An employee could chat up someone in the bar, or hire an escort. Could have an old friend who lives in the area come stay over or go stay with them. Etc. And those people could all do illegal things in the room that the company pays for (not sure what you mean by on the company's time).

I'm having a hard time seeing how there could be any liability on the company from the spouse or anyone else who happens to be in an employee's company when they are no longer actually working. Could you explain that one?

I really don't understand this.

I and my DH decide what time to have breakfast based on when we need to be at work. We come home at the end of the day and then have dinner. This is the norm for everyone, surely.

There is no reason why it would be any different on a work trip.

You said she should get a job that involved visiting the same destinations for herself.

I think your argument's specious but, in any case, this conversation's now re-treading the same ground for the umpteenth time.

Are you really saying being non a work trip is the same as being at home? 🙄