Husband’s female colleague’s issue being taken very seriously.

[Sweetmarzipan]

So background. DH works in a fairly male dominated industry.

When he first started in this company he would be away fairly often. One or two nights away every 4/6 weeks. One week in April and the odd conference.

I almost always went with him if I could for no other reason than the free hotel. If there were other colleagues they would have have their spouses with them as well. We became friends with many of them and still socialise. Irrelevant to my post but we always had separate bills and we never exploited expenses and we never saw other colleagues do this either but obviously the room was the same price regardless of occupancy.

Covid came along and other ways of doing things came about so audits etc were done remotely and these trips are now few and far between.

Last week I did join him for the first time in probably 6 months. He was leaving the centre with a male colleague in his fifties and a female colleague (mid thirties but I don’t know if anyone will find ages relevant) who had joined the company around three to six months ago (DH and colleague differ on the dates).

As they left to check into hotel the female colleague asked if they were eating, but they said that they had their wives with them and the male colleague said that she was welcome to join them but she declined. We had booked a pub meal on our own.

They were all together on Friday but over the weekend she has made a complaint suggesting that I and the other colleague’s wife had deliberately tagged along as they believed she would be unprofessional and inappropriate.

An email has now gone out saying that spouses are no longer able to tag along.

Colleague was spoken to face to face and the bosses did seem apologetic. DH was on a site and saw the email and was phoned by one of the directors again with apologies.

Surely she should have been told about the culture of the company. I am really gobsmacked. Two other wives have texted me this morning and they feel the same. We had a really nice lifestyle there which is bound to have created a nice work environment.

Wow - how misogynistic is this??

He is not going to be ‘pandering to his wife’s wants and needs’ during the working day in another city any more than he does when he WFH or from his usual work-based office and goes home at night.

He will put in a day’s work while she is off exploring the city on their own dime and then will meet to eat and talk in the evening, as he would after any day at work at home. Maybe go sight seeing/see a play etc. There is no legal obligation to spend your evening with colleagues just because you are in a different city - unless the employee and spouse [I know of a retired DH who joins his exec wife on some business trips] choose to or it is a pre-planned event such as a business dinner of conference, in which case wives probably don’t visit anyway.

I wish PP would stop going on about Mad Men; it's very irritating. If they'd actually seen it, they'd be aware that the 1950s-60s (and 70s) businessman kept his wifey at homey while he caroused around doing Business and inserting as much of himself as possible into as many women as possible - or men, I guess, though he'd have to keep that quiet.

It wasn't so different in my 1980s - 2010s career, either, except that more of us were women and fewer of the partners were at home. I've already said that [a] many of us ended up as same-industry couples, which had much the same effect as 'tag-along' spouses only with everyone on expenses, and [b] the family-friendly outfits are the ones with the best employee retention, loyalty and longevity.

I suspect family-exclusionary may actually be the style that's going out of fashion.

Sorry It was more of a point about the thread in general.

Funnily as a result of this thread, I emailed DH to make sure he knew the policy and I would be able to visit without jeopardising his career in anyway. Fortunately, his company seems to be relaxed about it - possibly because he checked first and also because he has been working there for 20 years and has a stellar rep for being ethical.

As DH hopes to only have another 5 years until he takes early retirement and because he has done several decades of travelling alone, leaving me at home with the kids, I think being able to take me with him some times [I also have a life LOL] was kind of a sweetener for him. I think it was going to make the last few years of working at his level/age a bit more bearable.

He has offices in some amazing cities and I can’t wait to see some of the places he has talked about for so long and see his work-life through a new lens.

@WhatWouldDianeLockhartDo but there wasn’t some foursome couples dinner planned.
I can see if they were all eating together and hadn’t invited her she’d feel left out.
But 50s bloke had plans at a restaurant and the DH had plans at a pub.
Yes ideally she should have been told the evenings are your free time up to you what you do you get £25 meal allowance or whatever. But that’s on employer not spelling it out.
If she’s moved from a different firm where everyone pooled meal allowances and had a meal together then it will have been a surprise.
But all firms are different and work cultures differ. The employer can’t direct how they spend their free time.
She may move to a firm where the colleagues play football in evening or go to a place of worship together and equally feel left out.

Oh I missed that - hilarious. I'm quite capable of pandering to my own wants and needs.

I have actually seen it, it’s all about the man’s work being the centre of the universe. And the wife being the support act & socialising with the other wives & how they feel about the young girls in the office.

To me, saying things like me being there helps my husband, and contributes to company culture positively is very Mad Men. It’s the husband’s job, not the wife’s. Going to a few conferences etc fine. Going on every single trip even short trips for the purpose of carrying out an audit seems way OTT. I can see how more junior female colleagues might feel sidelined by this group of not only men who are pals in a male dominated workplace but their wives who all hang out together.

She was on a work trip with two senior work colleagues. Why was it not on them to spell it out? Why didn’t they explain the plan for the trip for her, it’s not akin to going to football after work. It’s a business trip when you’re away with collegues. The least they could have done was explain her evenings are her own.

By the sounds of things it wasn’t an official policy in any case. It was overlooked/tolerated/not an issue until somebody made it an issue. And then the company decided it was too risky.

@CautiousLurker2 Enjoy. Honestly don’t let this thread put you off. I’ve loved the opportunity to travel to places I’ve never been.

Ha, @Hellometime, you've just reminded me about two of the older men in my last office, who ensured one of them always had a chess set in his briefcase. If they were being exhorted to socialise when they did not want to socialise, they'd earnestly plead a chess date and root themselves in a quiet corner with their mediaeval military analogy.

The other older men carried on behaving like Don Draper. One of them had a literal 'office wife' who, like him, was married to somebody else. They'd been a couple for so long that most people thought they were married to each other.

She’s quite capable of understanding for herself that evenings are your own when you work away from home, it shouldn’t have needed any explanation. I don’t see what “risk” there could possibly be.

As many have explained it isn’t universal. And the HR department do see a risk that the company has decided not to carry. That how business works, you decided what risks you are willing to take.

Or maybe you could find the sort of job that would enable you to travel to such places off your own back?

We don’t know they are senior. Just they are older and have worked there longer. 3 auditors away on a job. Might all be same grade. She can read the company away policy.
Yes they could have said heads up we do our own thing in evening but it may not have occurred to them she would expect to hang out with colleagues in her free time.
It’s free time in evening not work time.

There’s no mention of an away policy. I’ve never heard of such a thing so it isn’t universal.
Regardless of grade they’ve been in the company longer, it’s not that extraordinary to think that one of them could have mentioned the wives were coming and given her a choice to bring someone.

WTAF? Why? Presumably her own work and other interests are going just fine. She has the opportunity to accompany her husband to some amazing places, lucky her! Good for the marriage and enriching for them both.

But you, for some reason, feel it would be better for them if they were each visiting these places separately at different times, with other people ... 😳

There are some very odd people on this thread.

Because it’s a work trip and the company is paying for half of it.

Surely she’s more at risk of being compromised if all the men are alone and drinking in the hotel bars at night than if they are there with wives and have actively invited her to join them? This is the bit of OP’s post I don’t get, why it made the female employee uncomfortable? Or why she would infer that the men were taking their wives as shields against her wily ways - she must have a very highly developed sense of her level off attraction and irresistibility!

So what’s the risk?

Or go on holidays with her husband in his annual leave time which is BAU for most people.

Don’t be ridiculous. I meant in the evening not during the working day. What time back from work, what time going out, where eating, what time breakfast. All taking into account spouse’s wants and needs.

And don’t tell me employee buys bottle of wine on expenses and souse doesn’t touch a drop etc.

Nicer to see places with a husband or wife though, isn't it?

I don’t know what risk they have decided there is the OP doesn’t detail that, but they have stopped it & said they have to proceed “carefully”.

I'm actually tempted to go back and count how many times you've used "BAU" on this thread.