All men should be aware of this

[mildlysweaty]

I went for a walk in the sunshine around the back of my child’s school before pickup today. Usually the odd dog walker passes by but it’s pretty remote/foresty. I do this walk often but never go fully into the woods bit alone - because I’m female.

I was walking towards the woods and a person with long hair was walking my way - wrongly assumed it was a woman but when I passed them I realised it was a man in his 30s. I’ve passed plenty of men before walking their dogs, generally they give a nod and carry on. I started to feel a bit uneasy so rather than continue in that direction, I stopped a little further then turned around and started walking back (same way bloke was going).

I was a few feet behind him when he looked back over his shoulder back at me, then he stopped (with his back to me) and started opening his backpack. I felt bad vibes, there was no one else around. I managed to speed walk past him and pretended to phone my husband and had my car key ready to use if needed but all was okay in the end, I then passed some women walking.

In all honesty it could’ve been totally benign but any decent man should know that this sort of behaviour is intimidating for a woman, who’s alone, especially with nobody else around.

To get to my point: ALL men should understand how women need to be programmed to be wary of them, and how they can help is by ensuring they aren’t doing anything that could feel intimidating. They don’t know what it’s like to be a woman, but any decent man should be aware and conscious of how their behaviour may impact. I have reminded my husband of this today. It took a while to shake the feeling from this afternoon.

if voting I guess YABU = men don’t need to know this
YANBU = yes they do need to know this, it’s a way they can help

Wow!!! Maybe he stopped cos he thought this crazy woman is following me.

Oh yes the famous studies 🙄 when in reality all the men I've spoke to say they would be fearfull if being followed regardless of gender. But yes let's listen to the er hem non existent studies. You know men have fears,thoughts and yes anxiety too. It's not owned by women alone.

No, it's a lot of words that don't at all manage to make sense at all of your suggestion that a man should not have stopped to get something out of his bag, having clocked that you were speed walking behind him, and that all men should be made aware of this. Your suggestion was and is unreasonable and Catiette's posts have done nothing to change that.

The OP just wanted a male bashing thread. She didn't think we would see through it. The guy did nothing wrong

Nailed it!

That's honestly pathetic.

So, in a nutshell, we have no right to expect you to be courteous to us. Whether you choose to do so is entirely in your gift. And should you decide to bestow it, we must elevate you to the status of especially excellent man and be grateful. When you choose not to bestow it, then we must not judge you for that. We must take great care to make it explicit that you are not a bad man. We must take furthervcare to centre your feelings as a not bad man, otherwise we will lose your support. Because your support depends upon us accepting lack of consideration as the default of the 'good man' and praising you to the skies should you on occasion decide to show it?

The reality is that the most likely place for a woman to be abused is her own home, and real protection for women who are abused by men (and punishment of the men involved) is surely the best way of keeping women safe.

That’s not strictly true. Women are more likely to be physically or sexually assaulted or murdered by someone known to them. They are more likely to be assaulted inside - their home, perp’s home, workplace, leisure place. But they’re more likely to be sexually harassed outside their home.

But you turned around to follow him. So look at this form his viewpoint. Perhaps he was suspicuous about your random change of direction and used rummaging around in the backpack to monitor your intentions. Or perhaps it was completely unrelated.

I am not triggered by a man opening his backpack. If you have issues about this then you should find a walking group or walk in very busy parks.

Agree with much of this, a little confused by some.

As it's a debate that interests me and you quoted me, I'm happy to respond in a little detail.

Did you mean to quote my post? From some of what you say, I think you may have confused me with other posters.

I don't think I was arguing so much as genuinely confused (including by the volatility of PP's responses to my attempts to understand!) Whatever, though, moving on...

My main point is that men can be aware that women can feel threatened by their behaviour and should take action to avoid this, but it is a courtesy - not an entitlement. There are unfortunately many men who abuse women, but most of us don't.

Largely agree, but I don't think I'd say it's as simple as "courtesy - not an entitlement". Is an adult's empathy for and respect towards an unknown child - not barging past them / shouting at them / staring at them - mere "courtesy", or rather a moral imperative? This kind of takes us back to the different male behaviours women experience. Some of them are widely accepted, yet still have one hell of a negative impact on women's (perception of their - and actual) ability to move freely and safely through the world. I don't think it's entitlement on my part to expect a man to be aware that, twice as big and heavy of me as he is, he could knock me flying in a way he likely wouldn't another man.

I'm sat next to a man in a cafe right now who's huffing and puffing ostentatiously and staring at me at intervals - no idea why, but stuff like that isn't a matter of mere courtesy, but rather of functioning smoothly and respectfully in society! Other things - including the scenario the OP describes - are potentially more subtle and, yes, more about courtesy and choice.

What people have consistently refused to accept in the OP's case is that we don't know which category rucksack-guy falls into, because you had to be there. It my be he was behaving intimidatingly - body language speaks volumes but is hard to put into words. In which case, he should have been more aware. It may be he wasn't, and OP was overreacting, in which case your point about courtesy is very relevant. It's likely that it was ambiguous / different women would feel differently in relation to him. Which is where OP's point about awareness, at least, comes in - and, again, your own about courtesy.

Putting men who are merely being discourteous or thoughtless in the same category as actual abusers is going too far. You can safeguard your own situation without having some sort of segregated society.

Here, I start to find your explanation confusing again. I certainly haven't "put people who are being thoughtless in the same category as actual abusers", and I find it unlikely anyone on the thread has. It would be such an extraordinary thing to do, I can only assume you're instead suggesting that women sometimes perceiving men who are being thoughtless as a potential threat is unreasonable. Condemning them for this - exercising a better-safe-than-sorry instinct and common sense to safeguard themselves - would be remarkable, though, so I can't imagine you're doing this, either. Which makes me think you mean, writing/talking about an innocent man as if he were a threat, as OP does here? I do think distinguishing between these different possible meanings is important - so much of this thread has been fairly hysterical hyperbole, and it's really not helped readers discuss this important, complex issue. If you do mean the latter - the OP posting about a poor guy who was probably just enjoying his walk, or even trying to reassure her in his movements - I'm inclined to agree to a degree. I'm always conscious when I post something that a person I refer to could be reading it and, even if not, is out there somewhere unaware they're being (in their view) described/discussed by me! But do I believe the OP was somehow morally wrong to post as she did, and shouldn't have done so? Heck no, that's far too strong. She has every right to share her experience in this anonymous context.

The reality is that the most likely place for a woman to be abused is her own home, and real protection for women who are abused by men (and punishment of the men involved) is surely the best way of keeping women safe.

This old chestnut, frankly, is infuriatingly short-sighted. Think for a second about why home is "the most likely place". Accessibility. Vulnerability. Precisely what worried the OP in her own, isolated situation, and the exact reasons she sought to get back to where there were other people (quite bizarrely misrepresented by many as creepily "following" the man!)

Most of us are on your side here but I don't think you are helping by having a go at men who aren't actually doing anything wrong.

There's no way this can refer to any of my own posts.

This deals with a perceived threat rather than a real one. Why not tackle the real ones before the perceived ones?

I'm confused by this, too. It's not a zero sum game - we can discuss how to keep ourselves safe and feel safer, while also contributing to charities / campaigning for longer jail terms etc. Here, we were doing the former. Again, I can't believe you're suggesting we shouldn't be able to.

I think that if young men were forced to spend a few months in skirts and dresses in their teens they would get a much better sense of why women feel vulnerable and become more considerate adults. As someone who came of age in the 70s I am horrified by the extent to which women have become MORE objectified as they years go on.

Agree. It's awful, isn't it? :(

Thanks for engaging so fully. It means a lot to have something interesting to which to respond, and is more helpful to the argument of posters focussing on males' experiences of women's fear - it leads to more empathy and thought than rude or dismissive comments do. I think OP's comment above was sarcasm driven by frustration at the sheer stupidity of some of the misrepresentations of her here. It is a difficult issue, and worth more thought than that.

I'm sorry you are being treated this wsy, it's obvious to me you treat women with respect. You are being attacked the same way OP attacked the man in her post. For being considerate. It's very sad some women do this.

"You are being attacked the same way OP attacked the man in her post. For being considerate. It's very sad some women do this."

As much as many posters like to state that women are "socialised to be nice", whenever you talk about a large group of people (of either gender) some will be inconsiderate of others.