All men should be aware of this

[mildlysweaty]

I went for a walk in the sunshine around the back of my child’s school before pickup today. Usually the odd dog walker passes by but it’s pretty remote/foresty. I do this walk often but never go fully into the woods bit alone - because I’m female.

I was walking towards the woods and a person with long hair was walking my way - wrongly assumed it was a woman but when I passed them I realised it was a man in his 30s. I’ve passed plenty of men before walking their dogs, generally they give a nod and carry on. I started to feel a bit uneasy so rather than continue in that direction, I stopped a little further then turned around and started walking back (same way bloke was going).

I was a few feet behind him when he looked back over his shoulder back at me, then he stopped (with his back to me) and started opening his backpack. I felt bad vibes, there was no one else around. I managed to speed walk past him and pretended to phone my husband and had my car key ready to use if needed but all was okay in the end, I then passed some women walking.

In all honesty it could’ve been totally benign but any decent man should know that this sort of behaviour is intimidating for a woman, who’s alone, especially with nobody else around.

To get to my point: ALL men should understand how women need to be programmed to be wary of them, and how they can help is by ensuring they aren’t doing anything that could feel intimidating. They don’t know what it’s like to be a woman, but any decent man should be aware and conscious of how their behaviour may impact. I have reminded my husband of this today. It took a while to shake the feeling from this afternoon.

if voting I guess YABU = men don’t need to know this
YANBU = yes they do need to know this, it’s a way they can help

What a ridiculous post.

Women can be sent as decoys, some women do make false accusations, commit crimes and some women do attack. I’m not teaching my sons to be never fear women or situations they feel uncomfortable in.

You've already posted what you've told your sons. You've also posted repeatedly your fantasy scenario where the man in the woods was in fear of the OP, laying it on thicker each time as though its fact rather than something youve invented and projected on to him (the irony of you accusing me of projection!)
I don't think its a stretch to imagine you encourage your sons to see women as a source of danger they should fear. You've spent the best part of two days on the thread encouraging everyone else to think it after all.

Everyone should be aware of situational awareness and behaviour conscious of their past personal experiences.

Being conscious of what you are doing and likelihood /risks would reduce a lot of bad situations - if your pho e is open and you are on it, a thief will have access to your apps and data.

"Dear men, think like an attacker would think and Don't" does sound ...... iffy.

I’d expect my sons to be fearful of somebody changing direction and following them. He has no idea if she has a knife or is working with somebody else.

"You've also posted repeatedly your fantasy scenario where the man in the woods was in fear of the OP,"

To be fair, if some random person decided to start following him when he was out on a walk the man may also have had a "gut instinct" and behaved defensively and been a bit wary. Multiple players have suggested this is why he stopped to check his bag.

Granted he may not have lectured his wife about it when he got home then gone onto Mumsnet and suggested the entire female sex should be more considerate when running into solo walkers.

You are being ridiculous. Normal women dont feel intimidated by a man going into their bag in some woods. I think you need help not men.

I've told my son's to get out of the situation if anyone is following regardless of gender. That's the right thing to tell my son's. The world isn't a magical place where men don't get into dangerous situations. The man in the OP did nothing wrong except remove himself from the situation. That's what everyone should do regardless of gender. You just don't like the fact that men also have the right to do what's best for them in a situation. No I don't make my son's feR women , how ridiculous, but I have instilled into them if they fear danger they should remove themselves, exactly the same advice I give my daughter

Or and gap. Stop twisting people's words.

Man here.

A few years back was walking home from work late in the evening. Through a park. Not a lot of lamps. Just little circles of light and a bit of a wlk to the next one. Approaching a woman walking the same direction as me, and see her look over her shoulder. So cross the road to walk past her on the other side. She notices and speeds up again. So stopped till she had plenty of distance, recrossed the road to get on the path again.She must have been aware of that because she started running. Stood still, rolled a fag, and smoked it standing under the lamplight. Leaving her, running away, scared out of her mind. Probably would have been safer to have been nearer her. In case she was assaulted by another male. And I could have intervened to help.

Totally get what she felt. And what you, OP, felt. I try to be aware and respectful.

But sometimes, as a man, it's hard to know what to do. And we are not always hyper vigilant about the world around us. Can't always place myself inside the mind of every person in the neighbourhood.

Well said 👏

Wherever she was heading, she initially put herself far closer to the man whom she suspected could harm her than she needed to.

I completely agree that women and girls - or anybody for that matter - shouldn't dismiss their natural instincts... which is why it's even odder to deliberately put yourself nearer to the source of believed danger.

If OP was frightened when she realised that men walk in public places as well - and she believes that all/some of them represent a great danger to her - why wouldn't she wait a couple of minutes to let the one(s) she's particularly scared of pass by first (like this chap who was walking in the opposite direction) before evacuating the area of perceived danger?

You've also posted repeatedly your fantasy scenario where the man in the woods was in fear of the OP

Genuine question, do you not think someone walking in the opposite direction, then suddenly changing directions to follow a few feet behind you is suspicious?

As a man or a woman, I'd nope out of there in any way I could if someone did that to me, inventing a reason to stop and let her go past without making eye contact or inviting any sort of interaction was a really sensible move IMO.

I've actually done it myself on occasion when a bit spooked, I don't want to stop and look at my phone in case my phone is snatched out of my hand, so pretending to look for something in my bag is perfect cover.

Genuine answer, if it was another woman, not at all. If I thought she was deliberately coming towards me I'd assume she was approaching to ask me for help, directions, if I'd seen her dog or something. If it was a man I might think that too tbf, but there would also be a second of wariness that I'd not feel if it were another women.
The feeling of fear PP imagines the man felt doesn't resonate with me at all when encountering unknown women.

If that were true, we'd always know when someone was dangerous and when someone was safe. We don't, evidently. Lots of women marry men who go on to assault and rape them. Many of us, myself included, have been a bit freaked out by a man simply existing near us, especially somewhere dark and/or unfamiliar, but I personally wouldn't be confident saying that's because they're predators. It's just that I'm in a vulnerable situation if there did happen to be a predator around. That's enough to put you on edge a bit, and maybe do like OP did and get out of the situation asap, but really not fair to assume that the man was a predator just because she felt nervous.

But anyway, it really doesn't matter. She got bad vibes, she got away.

The only problem is that she seems to think that there's something men in general are supposed to do about the fact that she was scared. There is literally nothing the guy in question did wrong, other than give OP bad vibes. So what can men in general be aware of here? Yes, things like not following close behind women, crossing the road etc - men should be aware of those things. But in this case, apart from the bad vibes, what could he actually have done differently? He was just walking. OP passed him, then turned around and walked behind him quite closely. He stopped and looked for something in his bag (possibly because he didn't like having someone walk behind him, or maybe in order to give OP some space to overtake him, or maybe he was oblivious to her and genuinely wanted something from his bag) and OP passed him, and left the area. I'm just at a total loss about what the hell he could have done differently? And what are men in general supposed to take from this?

ETA: I didn't say OP was bizarre. I said the thread is bizarre. Which it is.

The man was followed by the OP after she suddenly changed direction. That would put fear into anyone regardless of gender. Men have thoughts, feelings and fears, that's not limited to women only.

She wasn't approaching you though, she had walked past you, turned around and was now following a few feet behind you, you've looked back at her but she's made no move to say anything or walk past, she just keeps following you.

Would you find that odd?

Marginally perhaps. But you asked me if I'd find it suspicious and I've answered you honestly, if it was a woman, no. I dont fear women.
I mean, they're very unlikely to be violent towards me, there's practically zero chance they'd sexually assault me or behave in a predatory way towards me, and in the worst case, I'd have a chance of outrunning them or defending myself.
The odds of anyone of either sex doing me real harm are slim, but there are all sorts of ways that fall short of serious physical harm that men can, and have, made me feel uncomfortable. The unwanted comments, attempts to spark conversation and getting nasty when rebuffed, all unerving and all too frequent for me not to feel a frisson of unease if a man behaves oddly that I genuinely wouldn't feel about a woman.

Can't always place myself inside the mind of every person in the neighbourhood.

I wanted to say something along these lines, re how men are expected to behave.

A pp made a very long post, in great detail, about how she behaves around her nervous cat, and how men should do the same when they come across a woman. And I thought "yes, but that's just one cat, that you know and have time to focus on in your own home. How can a man go through all that complex thought process every time he comes across a woman anywhere near him?" It's just bonkers and entirely impractical.

OP turned and followed a man, she was in the wrong and of course he might feel uneasy

Suggesting men don't feel scared or uneasy about being followed by a woman only adds to the stigma of men not reporting assaults by women because they are worried about being mocked, disbelieved or even (as is pretty evident on this thread) being misrepresented as the predator

I completely agree with you regarding having more to fear from a man than a woman, statistics, and most women's experiences dictate that, no argument from me, and I don't think the people defending the man's actions are disputing that.

But, I do not like being followed, if I was walking alone and a man or a woman changed direction to follow closely behind me, I would make an excuse to stop and let them pass without drawing attention to myself, looking in your bag is an ideal cover for that as it removes eye contact/acknowledgment of their presence too. What I wouldn't do is carry on walking with them following.

I would be extremely concerned if a man did it, less so if it was a woman but for either sex I would find it odd and I'd stop and force them to pass me, as their actions would make me feel uncomfortable, I actually think this guy did nothing wrong, and only did what he did because a stranger started following him.

Some people have said he was in the wrong, but no one, even OP, seems to be able to answer what he should have done instead under those circumstances? Carry on walking as to not offend/scare the person who has turned to follow him?

Ah, I'm the wrong person to answer that, as I don't think he did anything wrong either. I've never disputed that on the thread.
My issue has been with people belittling the OP for feeling nervous while at the same time projecting extreme feelings of fear onto the man.

"yes, but that's just one cat, that you know and have time to focus on in your own home. How can a man go through all that complex thought process every time he comes across a woman anywhere near him?"

This is fabulous. Dear goodness, I've never known a thread like this for people taking things literally to the point of cartoonish absurdity. I checked back in to see if the madness was ongoing, and yes, it is - same old, same old... But this one was so exquisite, I had to post something (sucker for punishment - I'm learning from this, and not checking back in again, you'll be pleased to know).

So (deep breath).

Kindly, my suggestion isn't that men gather all their considerable intellectual faculties to think of nervous cats every time they see a woman on the street.

Here's another encounter that may help to explain.

Shortly after my earlier last post, walking down the street, I saw a man slowly pushing a pram in front of me. I was walking faster than him and about to overtake him, and the pavement wasn't very wide. As such, anticipating the potential for me to make him jump as I suddenly appeared from behind his shoulder, I instead gently cleared my throat when I was still a few feet away as a subtle advance warning, and also angled my body slightly as I passed in a kind of instinctive "I respect your personal space" non-verbal cue that politely acknowledged the limited distance between us.

This is all that we mean, people!

I'm kind of glad actually to have seen the above and be able to write this as my final post, as it conveniently addresses a few of the misrepresentations (lies?) that seem to keep coming up.

Like OP, I wasn't "following" this man - I was approaching from behind him at a slightly faster pace.

Like most (all?) of the posters on my "side" of this debate - and, indeed, like most thinking people - I recognise that men have the capacity to feel unsafe (and yes, the right to "take action to keep themselves safe", or whatever the curious phrase that keeps coming up is).

Unlike some here, I don't see instinctively respectful, empathetic body language as an unfathomable mystery or overwhelming challenge in my busy day. That so many do really does suggest the OP - however badly chosen her example and unreasonable her moral judgement about our beleaguered hero, poor old bag-bloke - did have one hell of a point after all.

To me, as another poster said, really, it's all pretty simples (bless Aleksandr!)

Literally no-one has disagreed with the general point about men being aware and if appropriate, altering their path or whatever. What they have disagreed about is the level and extent to which women should expect this to extend to accommodate possibly unreasonable levels or anxiety or fear. Also simples.

For as long as people have different, valid, views on levels of risk, personal confidence and perspectives on the 'predator / prey' thing, there will continue to be disagreement..but again, no-one is suggesting the basic premise is unfounded.

Thank you @Catiette- your posts are very eloquent and make much more sense of the point I was making, which got lost in the detail.