All men should be aware of this

[mildlysweaty]

I went for a walk in the sunshine around the back of my child’s school before pickup today. Usually the odd dog walker passes by but it’s pretty remote/foresty. I do this walk often but never go fully into the woods bit alone - because I’m female.

I was walking towards the woods and a person with long hair was walking my way - wrongly assumed it was a woman but when I passed them I realised it was a man in his 30s. I’ve passed plenty of men before walking their dogs, generally they give a nod and carry on. I started to feel a bit uneasy so rather than continue in that direction, I stopped a little further then turned around and started walking back (same way bloke was going).

I was a few feet behind him when he looked back over his shoulder back at me, then he stopped (with his back to me) and started opening his backpack. I felt bad vibes, there was no one else around. I managed to speed walk past him and pretended to phone my husband and had my car key ready to use if needed but all was okay in the end, I then passed some women walking.

In all honesty it could’ve been totally benign but any decent man should know that this sort of behaviour is intimidating for a woman, who’s alone, especially with nobody else around.

To get to my point: ALL men should understand how women need to be programmed to be wary of them, and how they can help is by ensuring they aren’t doing anything that could feel intimidating. They don’t know what it’s like to be a woman, but any decent man should be aware and conscious of how their behaviour may impact. I have reminded my husband of this today. It took a while to shake the feeling from this afternoon.

if voting I guess YABU = men don’t need to know this
YANBU = yes they do need to know this, it’s a way they can help

Yes thank you for explaining this so eloquently 👏 this is pretty much my point!

On the face of it, this seems like a bit of an overreaction; you waited til he was past you then turned and followed him, he likely looked behind himself to make sure he wasn’t stopping directly in someone’s path and was probably getting something perfectly innocent out of his bag. Probably.
BUT having said all that, gut instinct is powerful and shouldn’t be ignored. You know how he made you feel, and that’s that.

What was he supposed to do? He walked past a woman, was that wrong? He saw the woman was behind him and stopped so she could pass by (because he was wondering why the hell she was following him) was that wrong?
No neither of those things are wrong.
I don't know what else he was supposed to do really.
Maybe we should just have separate times when men and women can go out of the house, doesn't seem to be any other solution.

Oh, stop it. What is it with these women who constantly cajole other women to ignore their instincts? What's in it for you?

I confess I couldn't immediately see the issue, either, which is why I continued reading the thread. The post you've quoted answered the questions I had. One was: why change direction and walk behind a man who has already given you bad vibes, and secondly, if this guy's behaviour didn't look particularly odd, why the pause?

Sometimes they don't need to do anything odd to give rise to that uncomfortable feeling. It should never be ignored. And changing direction struck me as unwise, but other than trying to 'get back to civilization' is quite difficult to postulate on what else OP could have done in that particular situation.

This one is a definite contender for Pascal's wager. If you listen to your instincts and you're wrong, no harm done other than giving yourself a few bad moments.

If you ignore them odds on you'll be fine, but there is always the chance that you were right. And if so, the possible consequences don't bear thinking about.

'Listen to your gut and act on what it tells you' is the bet you can't lose, and persuading women to ignore this is the worst possible advice. I don't know what made OP uneasy. She does.

That's enough.

OP he didn't do anything, did he? You were feeling anxious and that's why you reacted with panic/anxiety about the guy opening his backpack. That's on you, I'm afraid. Nothing you've described suggests he did anything to intimate, scare, harass you or anything else.

It may have been entirely innocent. There may have been nothing to concern OP here at all - odds on there wasn't.

But what of that? Women should still listen to their guts. If they're wrong then no one is harmed as a result. Whereas if they're not wrong ...

It's a straight assessment of benefits vs. risks.

I didn’t keep going in the direction I was going because it was more into the woods where there are no houses and no people therefore a much easier place to be attacked without anyone hearing a cry for help. Closer to houses again - more chance of someone helping. How is this not clear?

@Shessweetbutapsycho yes men should be aware that if they are in an isolated setting with a lone female present, they should take steps to try and increase her sense of safety.

And what, in this case, should those steps have been?

Bear in mind that, whatever you say he should have done, every single woman on here would need to agree that it would have been reassuring, and absolutely none must think that is would have made them feel less safe.

No, you’re mistaken. I don’t give a fuck whether it offends this man or not. The OP is telling us that men should learn from this particular man’s ‘behaviour’. I am asking her how he would do so based on the fact that nothing he did exhibited anything ‘out of the ordinary’. I’ve asked what he could have changed about his ‘behaviour’.

What could this man have done any differently?

I’m a woman. I’ve been frightened, I have been followed on more than one occasion but if you want good men to learn and understand what they could do to minimise feelings of unease in women when they are exhibiting nothing untoward then I will dismiss it because she’s offering nothing. What did she want him to do when, as per her OP she’s stating ‘all men should be aware of this’!

I'm so confused. I agree that men should be aware of how they can make women feel, my husband always crosses to the other side of the road if walking behind a woman on her own, for example, so it doesn't seem like he's following her. But this man just stopped to get something out of his bag? Presumably he looked behind him first to make sure he wouldn't be in anyone's way by stopping? Agree in principal but doesn't really understand your specific issue here

Last point.

Despite my above posts, I feel some sympathy for the man, too, esp. in relation to the comment about "decent men". He could have been entirely decent, and behaving in an entirely decent way!

But the OP, who doesn't usually feel uneasy, did on this occasion.

So, reading about it at many removes, we can choose either to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, or the man - or a balanced response that addresses both.

And given that we know that only one of the two (of the OP and man) is upset and present and reading, while other wasn't upset and probably won't be present and reading, the number and tone of "Stupid woman / poor men!" posts feels quite striking.

I totally get that people are choosing to focus on the ethics of the wider point being made - and agree that it does feel unjust to assume that this man, and by extension other men we know and love who we can imagine behaving exactly this way, isn't "decent".

But the way it's being said seems somehow significant.

What comes across is that, for many posters, everything that could lead a woman to post this way (distressing personal experiences / the realities of living in a female body etc.) is of far less concern than the offence her interior experience and words describing this may cause men.

And that actually proves the point she's making.

It shows there is a need for greater awareness of and respect for the female experience.

Lol I’m not mistaken you’re mistaken

op wants men to understand that in remote places, some women find them intimidating. That was her point. Why are you arguing with that?

as the lone woman in the situation, I would have felt much safer had he continued going as he was, not kept looking back at me, and not stopped, blocking the back route to the school, therefore making me feel trapped and threatened having to walk past him acting shifty.

You didn’t say he kept looking back at you, you said he looked back once and then opened his backpack

Did he keep looking back? I thought it was once. If he kept on looking back that changes things, much creepier.

What if he had got to that point and realised he didn’t know which path he needed? Should have have just got lost rather than take his phone/map out of his bag?

your basically saying a man can never stop walking if a woman is around!

I'd probably look back more than once if I walked past someone and then they turned around and followed me.

OP was "a few feet behind" this man at the point where he stopped and found a reasonn to let her go past. He has more right to be creeped out here than the OP.

You turned and followed him and were just behind him when he looked over his shoulder at you. He was probably feeling a bit uneasy about who was coming up behind him. He didn't do anything threatening towards you but just stopped and looked in his backpack. He might have been getting his phone out for example thinking he might need to call someone if he was about to be attacked so was readying himself! I think you were feeling a bit uneasy in a lonely wooded place but he may have felt a bit uneasy about someone who turned around and started following him!

No, I’m not. The OP said in her first post:

To get to my point: ALL men should understand how women need to be programmed to be wary of them, and how they can help is by ensuring they aren't doing anything that could feel intimidating.

So, other than not being there, what could this man have done to ensure he wasn’t doing anything intimidating, being that he wasn’t doing anything intimidating?

Most men already know that most women find them intimidating at times, so what could he have done differently? It’s a simple question to answer which you seem to think you do!

Ah you have taken inspiration from reading some of the ‘ Why dogs shouldn’t be in cafes’ threads on here 😂.

She’s already told you herself as the person experiencing it - she’s just posted and explained. I’m not going to speak for her

Well I don't avoid doing those things and neither do lots of other women.

Look I’m a man, and I get it some women can be anxious some not. I don’t mind giving women a wide berth in public. I generally cross the road to avoid walking on the same side if we’re alone and dark out.

I don’t take it personally. I also think if you have a gut instinct it generally serves to trust it. Maybe your unconscious picked up one something your conscious mind didn’t. Nobody did anything wrong but if you felt wary you have no need to justify it beyond that.

My only worry here concerns the fact the most dangerous man a woman will ever meet is her husband, statistically speaking. I worry that pushing all women to fear all men at all times may isolate someone vulnerable from asking for help when they need it. Making ALL men everywhere subject to suspicion plays into the narrative abusers try to construct to further isolate their victims.

I know this thread has raised serious issues for some and I am sorry the OP was scared. However because it’s been mentioned so many times that the guy was looking in his bag I keep getting an image in my head of a man crouching down over his rucksack and the OP putting her hands on his back and leapfrogging over the top of him and sprinting away down the path 😂. I guess that would put him off doing the same thing in future!

And lots do. Why are you more important than the ones that do?