All men should be aware of this

[mildlysweaty]

I went for a walk in the sunshine around the back of my child’s school before pickup today. Usually the odd dog walker passes by but it’s pretty remote/foresty. I do this walk often but never go fully into the woods bit alone - because I’m female.

I was walking towards the woods and a person with long hair was walking my way - wrongly assumed it was a woman but when I passed them I realised it was a man in his 30s. I’ve passed plenty of men before walking their dogs, generally they give a nod and carry on. I started to feel a bit uneasy so rather than continue in that direction, I stopped a little further then turned around and started walking back (same way bloke was going).

I was a few feet behind him when he looked back over his shoulder back at me, then he stopped (with his back to me) and started opening his backpack. I felt bad vibes, there was no one else around. I managed to speed walk past him and pretended to phone my husband and had my car key ready to use if needed but all was okay in the end, I then passed some women walking.

In all honesty it could’ve been totally benign but any decent man should know that this sort of behaviour is intimidating for a woman, who’s alone, especially with nobody else around.

To get to my point: ALL men should understand how women need to be programmed to be wary of them, and how they can help is by ensuring they aren’t doing anything that could feel intimidating. They don’t know what it’s like to be a woman, but any decent man should be aware and conscious of how their behaviour may impact. I have reminded my husband of this today. It took a while to shake the feeling from this afternoon.

if voting I guess YABU = men don’t need to know this
YANBU = yes they do need to know this, it’s a way they can help

There's a difference between saying ,"I am intimidated when I come across men in an isolated area even though they may be doing nothing wrong" and saying "this man should have modified his behavior"

I accept the OP or any other woman might feel fear or anxiety in an isolated area with a man, that is understandable. I also support the position that men should be aware of their inate underlying threat to women and modify their behavior to motivate that they and signal that they are not a threat.

However the OP is saying that this man's behavior, not just his mere presence, was intimidating and he should have modified his behavior yet can't say what that modification should have been.

If the position is that his presence is the behavior then it is not absurd to consider that the modification the OP and others want is for him to not be there as so far nobody has really offered any other suggestions as to what the modification would be.

I never thought about the walking at night think when I was younger and then a friend pointed it out to me and how crossing the road alleviates it's somewhat but also is a non verbal signal that you recognize the anxiety and are showing you are not a threat, it's a simple modification to do so I started doing it.

If this conversation is just "it's shit that simply being near a man in an isolated area causes me fear and anxiety because of the prevalence of male violence" I don't think there's any argument. It's shit and men as a class are responsible for that. But what the OP is saying is that what this specific man did was wrong, he should have done something different and if he was decent he would have when there's nothing different he could have done

Maybe the locals co-opt the woods and make man free Mondays? Idk man I’m not a politician.

You turned and followed him. You were the one acting weird.

I agree and am glad more feel comfortable having conversations with people in our lives about our experiences so they can be aware of how they impact us without always knowing. I do think it's important to recognise that we don't know what it's like for other people, and yes, that quite a few men don't get how intimidating they can be by just being unless it's directly discussed with him.

I'm also with those who don't see what else this guy could have done in the situation, and think the OP's threat response - while worth listening to - may have led to escalating her fears by following him rather than stopping to create more distance.

But I'm very surprised you'd feel anything other than a bit awkward as the man in the situation described. What would you fear the wonan would do to you, and what is the basis for your fear?

You're surprised men can feel a wide range of emotions about a situation, including fear? Maybe ask the guys in your life how they would feel if a random woman they had passed in the woods stopped, turned around, and started following them.

I asked one of my adult son how he'd feel in this situation where a woman he passed in the woods turned and followed them back down the same path, his first word was intimidated followed by fear, because of the unknown. He said he'd react by fleeing/speed walking. My younger teenage son agreed, said he'd tell the person to stop, then he'd run away and if they kept coming call the police.

I asked my adult daughters how they feel when alone if a man passed them in the woods - one said really anxious, the other was meh, wouldn't care. The first one doesn't go into the woods solo anyways, so just saying being alone in the woods made her face twist in discomfort. When I asked how they'd feel if anyone they'd passed in our nearby woods turned and followed them, they both said fear, the meh one reacted strongly that that was just a no, she seemed to find it scariest out of all of them.

Maybe we all need to appreciate that we can be intimidating without realizing it, and also that we cannot always predict how others react to how we act.

unfortunately I don’t live in the UK. take your feigned pity and privelege and use it to improve women’s rights outside of your rich bubble

He’s probably wondering why you started following him!
I do a lot of trail running, I often pass men out on their own on the tracks. I’ve never once had an encounter more than a cheery hello or brief chat. Most people are normal and just going about their daily lives.

Huh. Haven't read the hands-in-air suggestion 😮.

But then, so much here is being exaggerated and taken out of context - and I'm not going back to find it - so I'll say that, for all I know, maybe it made sense in whatever way it was said?! But yeah, from what you say, it does sound kinda weird! But so too does you saying some posters literally want a legal curfew for men. That's got to be hyperbole, too?!

Anyway, my point's basically just let's be a bit more sympathetic to OP. I just get a bit wordy!

Your picking apart the testimony of a traumatised woman on a board for women… as a man. Please go away now. You’re not adding anything useful to this situation

It's not "feigned" pity. It's genuine. I genuinely hope you get out of wherever you are and somewhere safer.
Edited to say rich must just mean being in the UK itself, as it certainly doesn't apply to me in any way!

This is what I mean… as a feminist you make one joke to illustrate your point and suddenly you’re asking for curfews for men. Wtaf? But your ok with the police telling your women to stay in groups? Get a grip.

Yes, that would have made me feel a little uneasy, OP. Unfortunately, even if all men were aware, there'd still be many that wouldn't be considerate.

Thank you that’s very sweet. In Brazil no one goes out alone after dark haha

Sorry, I don't understand your reply...

I made the joke about men not going out after dark - let them do it for once.
and suddenly I’ve asked for curfews for men. Nobody asked for anything of the sort

OP, come on. It was the middle of the day, loads of people around, you turned and followed the guy and he stopped so you could take over.

It doesn't sound like there was any risk to you here whatsoever, and absolutely nothing the man could have done to make you feel safer except for stop existing.

You must realise you're unreasonable and overreacting. I get it, I've done it sometimes too, felt jumpy around people even though there's no obvious reason and they're doing nothing wrong. In that case, I modify my own behaviour. If the man on the path had made me nervous, I would have waited a few minutes for him to be out of sight before walking back. It's fine to act in accordance with your fears. It's not okay to expect men to cater to your fears when they are just existing near you and not doing anything at all to bother you. That's entitlement and the behaviour of a child, not a grown woman.

Can't even go for a walk on a board for men and women without being told to modify your behavior these days

I've had this inexplicable feeling a few times, usually if a lone man is walking in the same direction as me but behind me, I'll sometimes turn and walk the other way, most likely perfectly innocent, but if I'm getting the heeby jeebies I'm not going to continue walking just for the damn principle of it.

What you did was completely batshit though! You walked past him, then turned round to follow him.. That is really unusual behaviour from a stranger (male or female), and in his shoes I would have made an excuse for you to pass by me too (stop suddenly look for something I need etc) rather than have to keep walking with you suddenly following me.

He did the best thing he could in the circumstances, which was pretend to be doing something, rather than stop and wait for you to go past him.

You were the one acting weird and suspicious IMO.

Youre making out like her feelings about a situation completely unreasonable because you’re offended on behalf of a man who a. Doesn’t care and b. Wasn’t harmed.
on a board for mums about feminism.
why are you here??

Ah, gotcha. And have read a few of your other posts. Yep, exactly.

It's really interesting, this heated defence of a man who likely just continued his pleasant walk utterly oblivious to it all... at the potential expense of a woman who shared a moment of vulnerability and is distressed by PPs' dismissal and ridicule of it.

Btw, in trying to get PPs to see my point, I've posited that maybe her response was extreme/irrational etc....

...But actually, I get it and trust her, too.

I've had experiences with men where if I'd tried to describe it, I'd have sounded pathetically paranoid, but I sensed something probably wasn't right. And like the OP, a regular independent walker in isolated woods, I'm pretty damn confident and independent.

I find it upsetting to think that, for example, if I were to share the two times I've felt intimidated in lifts - intimidated enough to avoid using them with lone males ever since - it could be reduced to, "So men can't use lifts?" "So you support segregated spaces?" "So man can't ever look at you?" By women!

It would be bloody offensive, showing a total disregard for me, my character and my judgement. And the impact on me of recognising a valid risk.

The awful fact is, for the OP in that lonely wooded area, for me in the lift, if the man we were with chose to attack us, he could, and we could do nothing to stop him. In that context, and the context of the stats about VAWG, it's not irrational to trust your instincts. After all, what else do we have, until the moment it all goes wrong and is too late?

ETA: I sometimes think some of what's behind the disproportionate anger at posts like the OP's is a reluctance to accept this unpleasant reality.

It's a board for parents (and non parents too tbf according to the owners) and this isn't the feminism board.

I'm also not offended by her feelings I just disagree with the criticisms of the man in the scenario which had prompted a wider discussion.

If this was a thread about driving and a poster posited that any driver who did X in a certain scenario was in the wrong and it was completely unclear as to why they believed X was wrong and what they should have done in the alternative there would be no issue in calling out the fact that while they might have felt unsafe in the moment, objectively their criticism of the driver is unreasonable

You turned a followed him, you probably made him nervous. A man that is no threat to a woman would not even think about his behaviour as it would not enter his mind. Why didn’t you keep walking the other way? Why didn’t you wait for him to get out of sight? I think you were more of a danger to him with your innuendos.

This isn’t a board ‘for women’, it’s a board for ‘parents’ and it isn’t the ‘feminism’ board it’s ‘aibu’.

I’m a woman, I find the OPs demand for men to learn from this as vague at best and due to the fact I am a feminist, on the AIBU board, I reserve the right to disagree with OP and in this case, believe she’s being unreasonable.

it’s called Mumsnet and this is a post about feminism.

We get it. You love men; you think they’re great. You’re here to defend their honour.

Next idea please.

That is your right and I agree with it completely.

i just don’t understand why this guy is so offended about the semantics a traumatised woman used when describing a feminist experience?! Like we get it. You’re outraged on his behalf. He was a nice guy. When we’re upset we say things. But why dismiss her whole argument? That annoys me

Women who don’t understand why OP was freaked are presumably lucky enough to never have had cause to be wary.

I love my husband and sons, they are good men and not on curfew! None of us would want our daughter to be walking somewhere alone because so many men are creeps. Good men understand how women feel and take steps to avoid intimidating them.