All men should be aware of this

[mildlysweaty]

I went for a walk in the sunshine around the back of my child’s school before pickup today. Usually the odd dog walker passes by but it’s pretty remote/foresty. I do this walk often but never go fully into the woods bit alone - because I’m female.

I was walking towards the woods and a person with long hair was walking my way - wrongly assumed it was a woman but when I passed them I realised it was a man in his 30s. I’ve passed plenty of men before walking their dogs, generally they give a nod and carry on. I started to feel a bit uneasy so rather than continue in that direction, I stopped a little further then turned around and started walking back (same way bloke was going).

I was a few feet behind him when he looked back over his shoulder back at me, then he stopped (with his back to me) and started opening his backpack. I felt bad vibes, there was no one else around. I managed to speed walk past him and pretended to phone my husband and had my car key ready to use if needed but all was okay in the end, I then passed some women walking.

In all honesty it could’ve been totally benign but any decent man should know that this sort of behaviour is intimidating for a woman, who’s alone, especially with nobody else around.

To get to my point: ALL men should understand how women need to be programmed to be wary of them, and how they can help is by ensuring they aren’t doing anything that could feel intimidating. They don’t know what it’s like to be a woman, but any decent man should be aware and conscious of how their behaviour may impact. I have reminded my husband of this today. It took a while to shake the feeling from this afternoon.

if voting I guess YABU = men don’t need to know this
YANBU = yes they do need to know this, it’s a way they can help

Some people think that women being nervous about being alone with men they don’t know in remote environments is harmful to men and their rights 🙄

Not what the OP said

Yes I know it’s what the people criticising her have said

The specifics of this particular incident are irrelevant. Maybe the OP didn't describe it very well. Maybe she did, fear isn't always rational in the moment. Her overall point stands though.

This week I've watched another few installments of the trumpstein files and the 'manosphere' documentary. All those men getting away with abuse and deviancy ....the media dont need to hype up too much its happening in reality.

But you'd agree the OP was wrong for criticizing his specific behavior and labeling him as not being a decent man on the basis of this interaction?

Her overall point didn't stand though. She wasnt at risk. She changed direction, she followed the man at speed. She made the man feel uncomfortable forcing him to glance back then stop so she could pass. She caused the whole situation.

Im not sure she did that… she expressed frutrstion at men not understanding why they can be so intimidating to women in certain situations and asked if it was reasonable.

but please correct me if im wrong

Always trust your gut. You did the right thing. Have you read the Gift of Fear? It goes deeper into how trusting your gut can keep you safe.

And yes, both DP and I talk to DS about being mindful of how he/men could appear intimidating to girls and women, and what he himself, whether on his own or with his friends, should do to minimise that.

But do you see that you’re describing turning and following him, walking closely behind him but he couldn’t have heard you. But you expect him to be hyper aware of your feelings when you seem totally unaware of his. I would guess he stopped and looked in his backpack as a way of giving you space. I can’t see that he did anything wrong at all.

Her own words

"any decent man should know that this sort of behaviour is intimidating for a woman, who’s alone, especially with nobody else around."

No, she clearly said that this specific man should have understood that his behaviour was intimidating. Even though there was no aspect of his behaviour that he should have reasonably altered.

If he had been walking behind her and keeping pace; or if he had walked too close to her; or if he had passed her, then turned to follow her, then yes, absolutely he should have understood how that behaviour would be intimidating, and not done it. Stopping to get something out of his rucksack though? The onus isn't on him to do anything differently.

You are right, people are mostly going about their lives.
Until they're not, as my husband says.
Being alert doesn't necessarily mean high anxiety, there might be a bad experience in the past etc.

Op have you read The Gift of Fear ? Sometimes people take in information too quickly to process, but nevertheless notice very small things that make you feel uneasy. I once had this exact sort of feeling about a man, it was a sunny day, broad daylight, I was walking along a road in a city and there was a quiet section with few cars. The man was on a bike. I was about 18. There was nothing I could put my finger on, he just made me feel very anxious and he then dismounted and flashed at me. I have been flashed at four times, and each time I had this feeling about the man, before it happened. I think it’s something about their energy, the anticipation.
Listen to gut feelings, is the message of the book.

I get you felt nervous OP but it does seem that you’re saying men should be aware not to look in their backpacks when women are around ….if he had turned round and was following then I’d get it more but when you break it down he really did absolutely nothing in this situation.

Well I mean… I stand corrected.

doesnt mean I think she’s wrong though. Any decent man should understand that some women might find them frightening for no reason other than the fact they’re male if they’re somewhere remote like the woods.

i also don’t think the man behaved badly. I can believe both things to be true at once because I don’t know whether that man knew he was scaring her or not, why he behaved the way he did or if he was a risk in the way she thought.

I agree and disagree. Just being a man in a remote place doing something unpredictable can be enough for some women. I do kind of expect men to get it.
But also don’t think this guy did much wrong

He literally didn't do anything wrong. Is it really unpredictable to stop and open a bag? If I were someone who felt this level or anxiety and apprehension in perfectly normal scenarios I would be either seeking help or taking self defense classes to boost my confidence, not expecting 50% of the population to amend their behaviour to accommodate it.

It absolutely is relevant. If OP thinks we should be educating our boys to grow into men that don’t intimidate women unintentionally then we need to know what we should be doing. This man did nothing wrong. NOTHING. The only other thing that this man could have done was to stay at home in the first place.

Her point doesn’t stand because her fear was irrational in this instant because he did nothing wrong.

i understand what you mean . My dh is aware of issues women face and always crosses the road in an isolated place etc to convey to people he is not a threat.
to me its about the potential of harm in a woman’s mind and dh sees it as mens job to be aware of this that females carry and act accordingly.

He did something to set her prey senses tingling. Idk what but she literally says she does that walk all the time, passes men and women, no big deal. I don’t know. She says something was off I trust her.

I am put out by men acting in ways that make me uncomfortable fairly often (hanging around by the path in the dark, walking too close behind me), but I don't think this would faze me unless I was feeling particularly paranoid that day for some reason. I think he might reasonably have decided that a woman who had literally turned to walk towards him probably wasn't going to be afraid of him. Generally speaking you don't walk towards people you're afraid of.

Woah woah woah... That's not how this goes. You don't get to just accept correction politely like you're better than me. We're meant to tediously argue semantics for 5 hours and ruin the whole thread.

"some women might find them frightening for no reason other than the fact they’re male if they’re somewhere remote like the woods"

And if the OP's position is that "this sort of behavior" is being male in the woods that's fine, everything else is superfluous.

The issue here isn't the OP being scared or anxious, the issue is the claim that any decent man would know that what the man in this scenario did was lonely to intimidate and the implication that he should have done something different although nobody can say what that different thing is. That is presumably because your assumption is right, what he did was be male and exist in that time and place so that's literally nothing he could have done so any man why finds themselves walking alone near a woods is not decent.

Haha sorry!
i can’t say whether that man was decent. I think he was because he let her pass and didn’t rape her but I can’t talk to him.
so I agree with her claim any decent man should know and think this man probably did.
but I also think he didn’t do anything wrong.
sexism harms men too I guess although I’m struggling to see how this man was.

He existed in the same space as her. Her 'spidey senses' are absolutely not some infallible guide that this chap was dodgy in any way. Why do you trust her? Because she's female? I believe she felt uneasy...that doesn't mean she was correct.