All men should be aware of this

[mildlysweaty]

I went for a walk in the sunshine around the back of my child’s school before pickup today. Usually the odd dog walker passes by but it’s pretty remote/foresty. I do this walk often but never go fully into the woods bit alone - because I’m female.

I was walking towards the woods and a person with long hair was walking my way - wrongly assumed it was a woman but when I passed them I realised it was a man in his 30s. I’ve passed plenty of men before walking their dogs, generally they give a nod and carry on. I started to feel a bit uneasy so rather than continue in that direction, I stopped a little further then turned around and started walking back (same way bloke was going).

I was a few feet behind him when he looked back over his shoulder back at me, then he stopped (with his back to me) and started opening his backpack. I felt bad vibes, there was no one else around. I managed to speed walk past him and pretended to phone my husband and had my car key ready to use if needed but all was okay in the end, I then passed some women walking.

In all honesty it could’ve been totally benign but any decent man should know that this sort of behaviour is intimidating for a woman, who’s alone, especially with nobody else around.

To get to my point: ALL men should understand how women need to be programmed to be wary of them, and how they can help is by ensuring they aren’t doing anything that could feel intimidating. They don’t know what it’s like to be a woman, but any decent man should be aware and conscious of how their behaviour may impact. I have reminded my husband of this today. It took a while to shake the feeling from this afternoon.

if voting I guess YABU = men don’t need to know this
YANBU = yes they do need to know this, it’s a way they can help

But she's wanting him to do something other than what he did to pander to her 'instincts'. So she wants him to sprint off, or turn away, or put his hands up or magically vanish or not get whatever it was from.his bag. Why should he? I think pp are right that he was letting her go past as she had deliberately moved closer to him. No-one is disagreeing about the general point that in some situations, dark, late night train or bus maybe, a man could take some steps to alleviate possible worry, but not in every situation always when there is no obvious, clear option.

Well whereas I do sympathise with all women (myself included) that they need to be this wary of men in general it's kindof hard to sympathise with somebody who apparently felt so threatened by a man that she decided to follow him (?!?!) and then frames his behaviour as unusual because he needed something from his bag....

What does that look like in this instance though? I wouldn't want to put someone in fear or make them unduly anxious due to a lack of self awareness or ignorance. I walk in the rural area with my dog regularly and try to be conscientious about my presence making lone women feel uncomfortable in those isolated scenarios if we cross paths. Everything that the OP did would make me think the man's behavior was spot on.

She's walking up behind him faster than him, let her pass.

Busy yourself with a task so you don't have to engage or make her feel like she has to engage and it gives an excuse not to be walking side by side or close by.

I've been in that situation and used the 'have to fiddle with something to let them past' technique. Usually stop and look at phone or take a drink of water. If anybody has any other ideas I'll be keen to hear them.

Think about this from his perspective. A woman passes him, then that woman suddenly changes direction and follows him picking up speed. He was going to look round, it's a natural reaction if you think someone is following you, this applies to men as well as woman. It made him uncomfortable which is why he stopped so you could pass. You made HIM feel uncomfortable, why is that ok? Men feel fear to

No it is not fairly commonly known by men.
I asked the three men in my life and it wouldn't even enter their minds to cross the road. They would'nt get up close behind a woman but they certainly wouldn't cross the road.

Sorry but I massively disagree. All men are not threatening. Men who do not automatically realise this (non) fact are not pricks. I am neither malicious nor an idiot. I'm middle aged, Gen X, well educated with a critical thinking ability and robust amount of common bloody sense.

I find it absolutely hilarious that the same hoardes who absolutely lose their minds about trans people in women’s spaces etc (on the basis that these people are biologically men, and as we know, men pose an inherent threat to women…), are telling the OP she’s being ridiculous! Try turning all of the arguments on this thread (‘he was just going about his day,’ ‘am I missing anything, he didn’t actually do anything,’ ‘by and large, people are just trying to get on with their lives’) (etc, etc, etc!) and applying them to your argument about trans women. You can’t argue it both ways!

FWIW in relation to the OP original question- yes me should be aware that if they are in an isolated setting with a lone female present, they should take steps to try and increase her sense of safety.

I'm obviously not talking about whether I should turn 'left or right outside of the stationI' etc etc.
I'm going by my experiences in my life and it has served me well.

No that is the responsibility of the woman herself. I don’t need a man to do that and I certainly am not going to be criminalising the vast vast majority of men who are innocent.

Men are threatening when they pass a woman heading in the opposite direction who then turns and walks a few feet behind them and should adjust their behaviour ?

If I passed a man heading in the opposite direction, who I got bad vibes about, I guarantee you I would not have turned around and followed him, certainly not a "few feet". I would carry on walking my way or if I needed to go back I would stop at a distance and observe said man until he was well away, if possible, or wait for 5-10 minutes, and then head back, keeping a wary eye out.

I'm all for calling out men and violence, but let's make sure we are actually calling out something real, not something which was made far, far "scarier" by the OP actions.

The likely scenario here is that the man barely noticed OP when she passed him the first time because he was thinking about something completely different. He walked on, and decided he needed something from his backpack - it could have been a map, a snack, his phone, it could even be that he felt something like asthma coming on and needed an inhaler urgently. So he stopped to get it out, then carried on his way again, having barely noticed OP walking past him again.

It's only OP who's made up some scenario where he was somehow at fault for the crime of having long hair, being in her vicinity, and carrying on with his walk without acknowledging her existence. We don't need to encourage other people to feel afraid in this totally harmless set of circumstances.

100% agree, men are not threatening in general. If I'm honest I'm more comfortable around men that a lot of women.

Just as most men aren't dangerous, most women aren't this anxious around men (though we do all take our own level of precautions).

Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything a man could do in this situation that some woman wouldn't find a problem with.

I really think the only way some women would be happy is to live in completely separate worlds.

Why should they!!!! I’m not teaching my sons to cross the road at every woman and I’m not teaching my daughters to expect it. That’s ridiculous.

That’s what I’m saying - I don’t think there was anything else this man could have done and we’ll never know because OP listened to her gut and changed directions. So we don’t know what he would have done and if her instinct was right.
I only know how he responded, which seems to be to let her pass and hang back, which seems like the only good response in this situation.
i agree it’s a shame we live in a world where people can’t just walk in the woods. But op isn’t the one who you should be angry at for that.

I understand what you mean by men being aware of their behaviour and how women are constantly having to be on high alert.

But what did you expect this man to do?

You were the one who followed him, it’s not like he saw you and turned back on himself to go in your direction.

I can’t see that this man did anything wrong.

Specific situation aside, what all men should be aware of is that they do ‘give women anxiety’ as the modern phrasing has it, and that is for very good reasons.

Male violence is endemic. Men are THE major social problem. The scale of violence and increasing sexism should not be minimised and dismissed with the endless excuses, nor should what men are pleased to call ‘misandry’ be compared to misogyny in any way shape or form. Misogyny and sexism is the result of irrationality and prejudice and the need to seek domination, power and control. What men and a few rich female helpers dismiss as misandry or namalt is the result of fact, learned experience, and the desire to protect both ourselves and our dependent children.

I am very concerned about the rise in men seeking to dominate, male violence, the rollback in women’s rights and also the death of democracy, which is closely linked.

Men need to start thinking about just what is in it for women to be anywhere near them, and women also need to reconsider this. Too many promises broken, every time, for the last thousand years. Too many times when women get written out of history, for the last thousand years.

Male violence is committed by a very small percentage of men so let’s keep this in perspective shall we.

It's fairly hilarious that you assume that it is only people who lose their minds about men being in women's spaces who are unsympathetic to OP. What is your evidence for that? I suspect that, if anything, it's the opposite - people who take a common-sense view that trans men are largely harmless types are equally the people who acknowledge that this man did nothing wrong either.

^ This.

It's a sorry state of affairs. The OPs post and some of these responses are full of assumptions, accusations, bias, division, etc. Not dissimilar from some of the anti-semitic rhetoric of Germany in the 30s designed to promote divisions and hate. I'm not sure who or how it would benefit, as humanity we have to all learn to rub together, woman and men of all races and cultures. Much better to go through life without fear and with the general perception that people are good and kind, would help you, have empathy & compassion and that we are a social species, that know how to have a good time.

I'm 59 and just wasn't brought up with this mindset. It's almost like young women today are brain-washed into the Neo-Victorian mindset that they are the fairer sex and need special considerations... that weird phrase that was doing the rounds, 'I'm just a girl'... often used as a way of self-limiting themselves.

Maybe he thought you were following him

I agree with this. I think it's important that men don't behave in ways that could be perceived as threatening towards women, such as walking close behind them at night. It's easy for ANYONE to predict that those actions might feel frightening.

However, I'm not sure it's fair to expect a man to reasonably infer that stopping and getting something out of a bag with a woman nearby could be threatening. Otherwise, men would have to go everywhere mentally checking through the most mundane actions "I want to check my watch/tie my shoelace etc, is anyone near me going to find that scary..."

Ultimately, I think OP got a creepy vibe/bad gut feeling about this man. That's valid, it does no harm to listen to your gut. But once you've got that gut feeling, you're more likely to interpret any action as suspicious. Plus, this recent incident in your area has got you on high alert.

When I was about 18, I was grabbed by two men waiting at the bottom of the stairs coming down from a station platform (not particularly late at night, small station where you'd often be the only person waiting for or getting off a train). They tried to drag me into the wooded area next to the steps, but because they were both so incredibly drunk, I managed to wriggle free and run. So it's not like I go through life not worrying about men acting weirdly. It's just that, from your description, I don't think most people would interpret this behaviour as inherently weird. Something about him creeped you out nevertheless, so you 100% were justified in being on guard and getting to safety. Better safe than sorry.

Yeah but in this analogy it's a woman seeing a trans person in a bathroom that they have every right to me in, sneaking up behind them and then losing their mind about them being in their safe space

Men feeling uncomfortable when women behave anxiously near them in a remote place is a consequence of many men attacking and raping women.
Don't blame women for making a man uncomfortable.
Do something to reduce the problem of male violence.