"Not all men” replies are ridiculous

[GarlicFound]

Generalisations exist for a reason. There's no need to point out that there are exceptions. When you want to highlight that your comment's universal, you say "All children", for instance. Generalising to "Children" implies "Children in general, for the most part, usually".

Everybody knows this. So there's no need to specify "NOT ALL MEN" each and every time anyone makes a general observation about men, goddamit!

You don't say "Not all dogs [have four legs]" or "Not all ice-cream [is cold]".

Having a penis doesn't make you especially vulnerable to generalisations. So grow up, please, and accept that YOU or your DH are not "all men" - general comments aren't intended to single you out. And if you feel like they are, you're a bit thick, not to mention narcissistic.

Maybe because some poster's get sick of I hate all men but I am desperate to get one and now I follow him and search through his phone or social media because I am craving attention and I am worried he is cheating. I cant think for myself because men do all my thinking for me. I want to endlessy complain about how terrible of a man and father he is but I will keep on doing nothng because he pays the bills and means I dont have to work but I have a child with him then have more but remember I hate all men

Exactly what I was going to say. The hotel case in Cyprus a few years ago, when random men along a hotel corridor were invited to rape an unconscious woman and all either accepted, watched or didn't report, made it clear it wasn't the exception there. I and many others thought it was unrepresentative- a combination of bad luck and the kind of men who went on a particular kind of lads holiday. The Gisele Pelicot case disproved that. It was Monsieur Tout le Monde. Not a minority at all.

Your understanding of statistics is appalling...

90% of crimes are committed by men does not equate to 90% of men committing crimes, which is what you are trying to imply.

If there was only one crime committed, and that was committed by a women, would you cite "100% of crimes are committed by (all) women"??

The fact that most women (around the world) do not have equal rights doesn't imply that men are bad. It certainly doesn't imply that UK men are bad just because other countries subjugate their women. Some believe (mistakenly or not) that increased protection is worth reduced rights.

You are making the common mistake of confusing "men" with "people in power".

Yes, most people in power are men.
Yes, most people in power seem to be shits.
No, most men are not shits.

"All dogs are animals" does not equate to "all animals are dogs".

I disagree.

If 1 in 4 women will be raped in their life time it can’t be a tiny minority, even accounting for each rapist making multiple rapes.

1 woman is killed every 5 days by a man in the Uk
More men are killed by MEN than women.

99% of women have encountered a man acting inappropriately towards them, examples are flashing, up skirting, stalking, groping, date rape drugging etc. Of these 99% of women nearly all of them have encountered this multiple times.

It is not a tiny minority.

"Yes, most people in power are men.
Yes, most people in power seem to be shits.
No, most men are not shits."

Your statistics point, already made many times on this thread, is sound. However, the above is also flawed logic. The two premises do not prove or disprove the conclusion 'most men are not shits'. We don't know. Thing is, we don't have population wide data on what men do (conviction rates likely to be very low for sexual crimes) or would do if they could get away with it (although the Pelicot and Cyprus cases and some surveys asking men whether they would rape if consequence free suggest significant numbers).

There is absolutely no basis for saying it's a 'tiny, tiny majority of men' as in a previous comment. Even if a significant minority, that's far far too high and we should be more worried about the harms to women than about offending the men who aren't shits. They benefit from the situation, by being 'one of the good guys'.

You might want to read my comment on the previous page, filled with some stats.

I'd argue that most men are 'shits' in mild ways, especially in regards to excusing and allowing other men to be abusive - but only a large minority are actively abusive in serious ways.

Yay?

we should be more worried about the harms to women than about offending the men who aren't shits

Exactly, @napody. It'd be reasonable to suppose that truly decent men ("not a shit" is too low a bar) would agree with you. Which tells us plenty about the NotAll men.

Sigh.

• Almost a quarter of men interviewed admitted they had committed rape

Do you understand how bad that survey was? Or at least how badly you quote parts of it completely out of context?

This was a survey, exclusively of men, primarily within a tight age range and covering behaviours over their lifetime. It includes "verbal coercion" to "kissing or sexual touching" and records the vast majority of incidents with people that are known to each other, on a date together.
It fails to record whether the response to "I'm going to kiss you (statement/ action)" was welcome or unwelcome.

It also fails to baseline the survey with a comparable sample of women allowing you to assume that no women ever leaned in for a kiss or touched a man without first seeking consent. That allowed the authors to make statements like "a quarter of men..." without having to acknowledge "and 25% of women".

If you're going to quote stats (a good habit by the way, and credit for the links), please please please try to understand what you're extracting and what the actual significance is.

@CanSeeClearlyNowTheRainHasGone

If 1 in 4 women will be raped in their life time it can’t be a tiny minority, even accounting for each rapist making multiple rapes.

1 woman is killed every 5 days by a man in the Uk

More men are killed by MEN than women.

99% of women have encountered a man acting inappropriately towards them, examples are flashing, up skirting, stalking, groping, date rape drugging etc. Of these 99% of women nearly all of them have encountered this multiple times.

It is not a tiny minority.

@CanSeeClearlyNowTheRainHasGone

right now in the Uk there are approximate 35 million women and girls

Approximately 8.9 million of today’s women and girls will be raped by a MAN in their lifetime.

8.9 million rapes.

1 woman is killed every 5 days by a man in the Uk

30 men were killed by their partner/ex-partner.

That's 1 every 12 days.

That's context. A ratio of about 2:1

If 1 in 4 women will be raped in their life time it can’t be a tiny minority, even accounting for each rapist making multiple rapes.

These stats are meaningless out of context. When the question is effectively "In the 40 years that you've been married, have you ever had penetrative sex with your husband when you didn't really want to", then I'm surprised it's only 25%.
Men of course can't be raped by women by the legal definition.

Headline stats are almost always cherry-picked to support a view.

You are making stuff up now 🤣

and between 95% and 99% of men do not commit violent or sexual crimes.

So yeah, sucks if you are the woman who happened upon the 1-5 in every 100 men who suck, but that's not a reasonable way to ground your opinion of the other 95-99 in 100.

This is inaccurate.

@HelmholtzWatson

How many women are raped or sexually assaulted every year?
739,000*
That's 1 in 30 women. So, probably at leastone woman you know was raped or sexually assaulted in the last 12 months.
*This figure is for the year ending March 2025.

I'm afraid not.

9 in 10 girls and young women in schools say:
Sexist name-calling and being sent unwanted 'dick pics' or other images of a sexual nature happens to them or other girls and young women their age.

Straw man, and demonstrates a fundamental problem of threads like this as most people can't do numbers or thinking.

In other words, the number of victims =/= number of prepretrators

How many adults are sexually abused?
According to statistic reports in England and Wales, 20% of women (1 in 5) and 4% of men will experience sexual violence in their lifetime. Approximately 85,000 women and 12,000 men experience rape or sexual assault in England and Wales every year which is around 11 sexual offences every hour.
Estimates from the Crime Survey for England and Wales in the year ending March 2022 showed that 2.7% of adults aged 16-59 years experienced sexual assault (including attempted offences) in the previous year.
How many children are sexually abused?
The NCPCC published a child sexual abuse statistics briefing in March 2021. Research with 2,275 young people aged 11-17 about their experience of sexual abuse suggested around 1 in 20 children in the UK have been sexually abused.
According to the latest statistics provided by the charity Rape Crisis, 1 in 6 children has been sexually abused.
What percentage of sexual abusers are male/female?
Although the exact figures are not available, research suggests most perpetrators of sexual abuse are male.

Oh yes, sorry, I've quoted it inaccurately - attempted or committed rape.

"Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion."

I'm glad to know that:

• a.) you think verbal coercion and sexual touching without consent are fine and dandy, that
• b.) you think going on a date means consent is assumed, and
• c.) for some bizarre reason, you think sexual assault and rape don't count if a man is university age, as opposed to being concerned that men commit or attempt rape so early in their lives, and
• d.) you're arguing in bad faith as you ignored every other linked statistic on my list.

Additionally the study quotes other studies.

"The first study was conducted by Kanin in the 1960s, who found that 25.5% of the male college students he surveyed had forcefully tried to make a woman have sex with them since being in college."

"The first large-scale study was conducted by Koss et al. [1987], who surveyed a nationally representative sample of 2,972 college men. [...] Twenty-five percent of these men reported that they had committed some form of sexual assault; 7.7% had committed attempted or completed rape."

"Numerous researchers have replicated these basic findings. Depending on the university and exactly how questions were phrased, self-reported rates of sexual assault perpetration have been as high as 61% and rates of attempted or completed rape have been as high as 15% [Abbey et al., 1998, 2001; Craig et al., 1989; Mills and Granoff, 1992; Muehlenhard and Linton, 1987; Rapaport and Burkhart, 1984; Wheeler et al., 2002]."

"Calhoun et al. [1997] surveyed 65 young men in a rural community in Georgia who had recently participated in a study of school-aged youth. The average age of participants was 19 and most were Caucasian. Twenty-two percent of these men (n = 14) had perpetrated some type of sexual assault based on their answers to a modified version of the SES; 6.4% had committed an act that met standard legal definitions of completed rape."

" Senn et al. [2000] surveyed a representative sample of 195 men in a small Canadian city. Participants ranged in age from 19 to 82 and most were Caucasian. Using a modified version of the SES, 27% of participants reported committing some type of sexual assault; 7.7% reported committing attempted or completed rape."

"One large noncollege study was conducted with a special population. Merrill et al. [2001] surveyed 7,850 male US navy recruits from three different locations. These men were on average 20 years of age and approximately two-thirds were Caucasian. Using a shortened form of the SES, approximately 11% of these men reported that they had committed an act that met standard legal definitions of rape."

It seems pretty clear that on average, by the time they're in their early twenties, between 6% and 15% of men have admitted to either actively trying to rape a woman, or having committed rape, and nearly 1 in 4 or more have admitted to committing sexual assault.

Is that better?

"One in three men (32%) aged 18 to 57 years report using emotional abuse towards a partner. One in ten (9%) say they have used physical violence."

So no, it's not '1 to 5 in a 100'.

You say only 1-5% of men committed rape on 25% of women and do all the assaulting, dick pic sending, murdering, domestic abuse, the upskirting, the flashing, wanking in public places, the groping and following and heckling out of their white vans on 99% of women. And the epidemic of male in male violence? All committed by just as little as 1% of men.

Hahahaha!!!

The 1% figure alludes to convictions for violent crimes; the fuller story is that approx 1% of men are responsible for approx 63% of the violent crimes resulting in a conviction. I haven't read further than the summaries, but they do recognise some of the obvious potholes: two of the largest are that inmates serving long sentences for the worst crimes cannot commit repeat offences while in prison, and that the majority of violent crimes do not result in a conviction. There's also the consideration (unquantifiable) that police will look to previous offenders when investigating crimes, which makes repeat criminals more likely to be caught.

Self-assessment surveys show a very different picture. When offenders are guaranteed anonymity, they reveal more than they would to police officers! Surprise, surprise ...

I don’t know the numbers of male perpetrators and nor do you. So spouting it’s between 1-5% is nonsense.

The important fact is simoly

MEN AS A SEX CLASS POSE A REAL DANGER TO WOMEN AND WE CAN’T EVER REALLY KNOW WHICH ONES ARE BAD OR HOW MANY.