To think this was unfair, and to take time off for mental health.

[Dawnchorus1]

I work in the civil service, and after returning from mat leave was given the choice of returning to my current job full time or taking a demotion if I wanted to do 3 or 4 days.

I took the demotion. This was nearly 5 years ago. I've contributed fully and enthusiastically in my role and been successful in working on big projects and having my ideas taken forward consistently (we work in an environment where most projects have a few people creating initial ideas which the clients then chose from). This despite being managed by 'replacement', being a single parent to my son, having little family support and having lost my mum suddenly last year, and have been working very hard at keeping my shit together.

We've gone through a restructure recently which has been horrendous for most involved and taken it's toll (multiple applications to apply for our own jobs etc). I kept my job luckily. Then a position opened up for my previous role. My son being at school now I thought it would be a good time to get my career back on track - up my hours and resume previous role.

So put in application. Got interview. Knew others were going for it, but being the one who had actually done the job before thought I had more than a good chance of getting it.

Invites for interview were sent out on the Friday - which is non working day for me so I didn't see it until the Monday morning, meaning I Iost a weekend of prep time. Interviews scheduled for the following Monday, so only a week's notice for me. We had to prepare a presentation for the interview (with no time scheduled during work to do so). This also happened to be the week of my mum's 1 year anniversary of her sudden death, and the week in which we buried her ashes. I see a therapist and the week before this she said she thought I was depressed - because I said I was struggling to get out of bed and do basic things like the washing up and laundry.

I worked hard to prepare a presentation. Long story short I didn't get the job - despite being told I had done a really good presentation. Because I 'didn't have enough examples on the behaviour and strength questions'. Despite having worked with these people closely for 5-10 years. They know I can solve a problem, they've seen me do it every week. Yes I could have had better answers. But last week was the worst week for me to have to prepare for this. I put the time and effort I had in me getting my presentation in good shape.

I'm absolutely devastated. I feel like crap and need advice about what to do next. Think I'll need to take some time off for mental health reasons, how do I go about this? I feel so angry. I'm not sure if they were allowed to do what they did with demoting me when returning from mat leave.

Agree with this. So sorry for the loss of your mum and to hear you're having a tough time.

Look.

The CS interview method is pants. It is designed to be rigidly and demonstrably fair.
That is not the same as getting the best candidate into position.

I have been on CS panels for appointments and also for awarding £m contracts.

They are designed to stop people suing because they.didnt get awarded the job/contract.

They are also vulnerable to "adjustment" to get the "right" outcome at times.

But those interviews are an art form in themselves, bearing little resemblance to the skills necessary to get the actual job done. That's partly why the CS has some truly awful managers who just keep.climbing the ranks despite incompetence.

As an anecdote, which may make you feel better... at one point i was a contractor to the CS on a £750 day rate (£150k equivalent). Having been there for 2 years they needed to make the role a permanent one (at £64k). So, out of curiosity, I interviewed for that role.

I didn't get it.

But stop feeling sorry for yourself and blaming others or the situation. The fact you didn't get it doesn't change who you are or your competencies.

That said YABU if your response is to take time off.

Ime civil service applications/interviews are very much about ticking boxes. It doesn’t matter what previous experience or skills you have- it is a very robotic process.

I wouldn’t take anything from it about their opinion of you or ability to do the role.

Your demotion was 5 years ago. You have had plenty of time to change your role and your attitude to it. No one will even think about where you were 5 years ago so it’s not embarrassing in your work environment. Sometimes we have to get on with the present rather than endlessly regretting or being angry about the past. It’s good you’re in therapy - seek that help. But you have to move on from what happened 5 years ago.

Nothing you have described about the process sounds unfair. I’m sorry you didn’t do yourself justice in the interview, but that isn’t their fault.

@Dawnchorus1

I am sorry for the loss of your Mum and all the other hard things you are going through.

I agree with the PP that I don’t think you are thinking clearly.

There is nothing “humiliating” about getting a decline on a job application - it’s not a personal attack on you or your work history. It’s just a business decision.

I agree with a PP who said that you should maybe take some annual leave to rest and do some self care.

I very much think you should continue to prioritise your therapy and work through all your stressors with their support, see about treatment for the depression and just really focus on building up a healthier inner narrative for yourself so you can have more balanced views about your work, and life in general.

I am sorry things have been so hard for you.

Don't blame you for being fucked off with the whole situation but you need to adjust your attitude. You should have known better not to prepare to do the whole charade. I haven't even worked for 27 years but even I know about the STAR nonsense of the CS.

Don't go off sick. Work on improving your interview skills for next time if that's what you want to achieve. Nobody has discriminated you and while it feels unfair; it actually isn't.

It isn't only STAR structure that matters. What is more important is content and match with CS behaviours for the grade in question. Every job and will have 2-4 behaviours listed and those are what will be tested at interview. You won't pass if you give an excellent Delivering at Pace answer to a Managing a Quality Service question. The interviewers should flag which behaviour is being asked.
Strengths are different and aren't STAR.
As soon as you knew you'd passed the sift, or even better, after application went in, you could have started tailoring best examples for the behaviours.
All that said, the system is screwed and many times best candidates are missed because they haven't played by the rules.

I think my advice would be to try to keep the two issues fairly separate except that of course each impacts how you feel about the other.

You are understandably upset about the job and you do sound like maybe you were close to being appointed (reappointed) to it. I’m sure you would have been excellent. But it’s best for your own well being to take the ‘you win some you loose some’ attitude.

You have also been holding up the earth as a single parent suffering life’s blows and remaining afloat. It’s perfectly reasonable to feel exhausted and not your best at the moment.

Taking some time out for mental health reasons to sleep and be kind to yourself(?) does not sound like your style so I am unsure if it will help you but it’s not unreasonable. If you do this I would avoid it being linked to the job application as much as possible for your own future benefit.

It’s ok to not be ok as they say. You will bounce back and there will be other opportunities in time … maybe at a better time.

The problem with civil service interviews (from your pov) is that they have to go very strictly by the examples given in interview. They can’t import knowledge of having “seen you do the job”- they have to go very strictly by what you say in the room.

If someone else gave better scoring examples then they will have got the job, come what may.

I know how unfair it can feel because I, at one stage, on several occasions “passed the board” for promotion but didn’t get it, got put on a waiting list that expired and then had to apply again. I did get the job in the end!

I think going off with stress would be an over reaction. The job wasn’t yours by right, there’s been a full and fair interview process (presumably, not knowing anything over and above what you said) and someone else got the job. Your position remains unchanged.

The interview offers going out on the Friday was unfortunate, but nothing stopped you checking civil service jobs that day. Any day could be someone’s NWD, or could be a day of AL for someone etc

The only thing that maybe could be considered unfair was whether you could have done your original job part time or as a job share etc - if they didn’t give sufficient consideration to that. But there’s nothing to suggest that in your post.

Appreciate the disappointment but, really, it is time we stopped taking time off/‘mental health days’ just because we’ve had a rejection.

I don't think OP is saying she's doing this regularly and asking whether she should continue.

She's asking if it's ok to start taking some sick leave because she has symptoms of depression following an intense year of challenges - often when things start to settle down a little it's where the exhaustion really kicks in.

Or I should say, if you do take time off with stress, don’t do it because of the interview and rejection, because that’s a run of
the mill occurrence.

The other things you have going on do sound stressful (most of them do or have applied to me at some stage) but they might then think “well it’s a good job we didn’t give her the promotion, she obviously wasn’t in the right place for it”

They won’t think “oh gosh that serves us right, we really should have given her that promotion” if you do go off. They’ll probably just bring someone up to your current grade on EOI to cover (if it’s for any length of time).

My experience is that having “was off with stress” on your record doesn’t look great (from having seen as an outside observer how this affects people going forward) unless there’s an obvious and immediate reason, such as if you’d taken the time just after losing your Mum. Taking it after an interview rejection doesn’t look good. It makes you look lacking in resilience, to be blunt.

Edit - but should say if you’ve been diagnosed with depression then that’s clearly a good reason to be off. Although sounds again like a bad time to have started a new role if you did get it.

The only thing Relevant here is whether you do actually need time off sick due to depression or not, not getting job etc does not matter for the purposes of your initial question
If you do take it

That is disappointing and I understand your frustration. CS recruitment is very strict though which you’ll remember from being on the other side.

they haven’t done anything wrong in terms of discrimination. Timing of the interviews is what it is and they aren’t going to plan it around one candidates plans. If you knew the invites were being sent on the Friday you presumably had the option to log on and check and then had evenings to prepare- the same as all candidates.

taking time off for mental health now will likely reflect poorly on you- whether that’s right or not. It will look like you’re throwing the toys out of the pram because you didn’t get the job, circumstances outside of work won’t matter to how it appears professionally and realistically the only way to
progress after that would be to move department.

it is possible to have kids and sustain a career, there’s sacrifice whether that be going part time and limiting your options or staying full time and balancing family life. Depending on your grade and the workload part time is not always reasonable (as a G7 I know I collect manage part time hours and others that do end up working on NWDs anyway).

Sorry this happened to you OP. I'm also a designer in a massive digital gov department and if you had come back off maternity here, they would've done everything to try and accommodate your desired working pattern. I've seen multiple women come back from maternity and go part-time and none of them have had to take a demotion. So I feel bad for you on that count.

We all know the recruitment process is a nightmare. Your experience, performance, achievements and ability generally count for nothing if you don't nail your answers and score better than every other candidate. I got a promotion to a G7 role last year on the second attempt. The first time round, there were six positions available, they interviewed 10 people, and I didn't get a role - they all went to external candidates. I was totally mortified. Bad enough if there had only been one position available but six? I felt really humiliated. Then it was another 2.5 years before the opportunity came round again due to a recruitment freeze. Doesn't help that the higher up you go, the fewer roles there are.

In the meantime I did so much work on getting my 'examples' knocked into shape, got a mentor, practised saying them out loud, interrogated them against the SFIA framework etc. I also asked for (and received) example questions for my grade and role which was SO helpful. (Two of them ended up being asked in the actual interview). All you can do it wait for another opportunity, or look further afield or outside the civil service if you feel really fed up. It sucks, but it's the stupid bloody system, as you know.

At least you will now be able then to coast a bit - no point in working more than your best if the STAR thingy is all that matters in the end.

If the successful candidate isnt the right fit for the job, then they will soon find that out. Sit back a bit and watch 👀

I don’t think AIBU is the right place for this post at the moment op. People will be nasty under the guise of ‘saying it how it is’ and show no empathy for the struggles you’ve been going through.

You didn’t get the job, you weren’t entitled to get the job but you are allowed to feel shit about it especially after what you’ve been through. But you won’t find much compassion here.

I don't understand why you need time off? Yes it's unfortunate, and I'm so sorry for your loss, but is time off for mental health actually a thing? If your workplace offers this, then yes you should apply for time off to deal with your mental health.

Maybe I am too stoic as I've always worked through hardship with the bare minimum time off, to arrange and attend the funeral etc, eg in the case of my mother.

Well work hard and revise for the interview and you should be fine. Blaming work for everything won’t help you, someone else performed better and got the job on the day, accept your part in that and move on.

I voted that YANBU because of what you were/are going through.
You definitely need to have some time for you. Go to your GP and tell them that you are struggling to function (the getting out of bed, not being able to get general chores done etc).
They will likely prescribe an antidepressant and suggest talking therapies which you're doing already and sign you off for a bit. You can ask for that as well if they don't suggest it but be careful that you don't get stuck in the dark. There is light, I promise you.

There is no shame in being depressed and having to take a little medicated support. Please be aware though that not many people come off antidepressants so if you can try and heal holistically, I would suggest trying that more so.
I've been taking antidepressants since 2012 and is love to come off them one day but I came to peace with the fact that I may need medicinal intervention for the rest of my life to help me live a normal and functioning life as possible.

I don't think they were BU for giving the role to a more suitable candidate as they can do what they like, it's business but I hope you get the support you need.

Sending you a lot of love and hugs

OP, aside from the promotion.
It sounds like you are struggling mentally, both with the grief of your mum at the time of the anniversary, and the stress / overwhelm of preparing and interviewing, and it sounds like you're spiralling due to the outcome of all of it.
I personally think it does sound like you need to take some time off for your mental health - but I don't think you should say it's due to the job (which I genuinely don't think is the real issue). I think it sounds like your self esteem, self worth, and ability to cope right now has been deleted so much that this feels much bigger and much more unfair than it is. It's so tough juggling a career with being a mum even without a bereavement and a stressful restructure.
If you are struggling, take some time. Get your head in a better place.
Come back stronger.
Maybe now wasn't the right time - and that's ok. There will be opportunities elsewhere, and although you feel like total crap now I am sure it will get better once you get out of this headspace and realise your value and potential. I think it's just been bad timing this time around.
Hugs.

Sadly not everyone is as stoic (as you put it), and I know people who are in the lost parents club and are still struggling with the loss of their mum/dad after years of them passing.

That's the beauty of everyone being unique.

Sorry to hear you are also a part of the LPC.

Echo what’s above. I’m really sorry you didn’t get it, but they have done nothing wrong and gave the role to the best candidate. I’d agree taking some annual leave and having a break might be a good idea - maybe think about what you want career-wise going forward. Access the EAP for support? Maybe speak to your line manager too. It’s totally crap not getting a job you really want op, I get it.

I think mistake you made is assuming they know you and can use that information in the process. As I understand it civil service interviews are scored and it’s on what is in your application and answers. We are same in local govt. It can feel awkward for an internal applicant. We remind everyone at start it’s a scored system and they need to answer questions fully.
I got a promotion over a colleague who had 30yrs service and had previously done the role as mat cover v my 2 years service because I scored higher in interview.
I’m sorry you didn’t get the promotion. Maybe it wasn’t the best time to up hours with everything you have to deal with.

Well you can only have STAR answers if you have relevant situations that you can call to mind. So your experience is important too.