To think this was unfair, and to take time off for mental health.

[Dawnchorus1]

I work in the civil service, and after returning from mat leave was given the choice of returning to my current job full time or taking a demotion if I wanted to do 3 or 4 days.

I took the demotion. This was nearly 5 years ago. I've contributed fully and enthusiastically in my role and been successful in working on big projects and having my ideas taken forward consistently (we work in an environment where most projects have a few people creating initial ideas which the clients then chose from). This despite being managed by 'replacement', being a single parent to my son, having little family support and having lost my mum suddenly last year, and have been working very hard at keeping my shit together.

We've gone through a restructure recently which has been horrendous for most involved and taken it's toll (multiple applications to apply for our own jobs etc). I kept my job luckily. Then a position opened up for my previous role. My son being at school now I thought it would be a good time to get my career back on track - up my hours and resume previous role.

So put in application. Got interview. Knew others were going for it, but being the one who had actually done the job before thought I had more than a good chance of getting it.

Invites for interview were sent out on the Friday - which is non working day for me so I didn't see it until the Monday morning, meaning I Iost a weekend of prep time. Interviews scheduled for the following Monday, so only a week's notice for me. We had to prepare a presentation for the interview (with no time scheduled during work to do so). This also happened to be the week of my mum's 1 year anniversary of her sudden death, and the week in which we buried her ashes. I see a therapist and the week before this she said she thought I was depressed - because I said I was struggling to get out of bed and do basic things like the washing up and laundry.

I worked hard to prepare a presentation. Long story short I didn't get the job - despite being told I had done a really good presentation. Because I 'didn't have enough examples on the behaviour and strength questions'. Despite having worked with these people closely for 5-10 years. They know I can solve a problem, they've seen me do it every week. Yes I could have had better answers. But last week was the worst week for me to have to prepare for this. I put the time and effort I had in me getting my presentation in good shape.

I'm absolutely devastated. I feel like crap and need advice about what to do next. Think I'll need to take some time off for mental health reasons, how do I go about this? I feel so angry. I'm not sure if they were allowed to do what they did with demoting me when returning from mat leave.

I have way more experience, qualifications, and have tangibly demonstrated in the past year that I am better at the job than they are on numerous occasions. Yet I messed up the interview questions and they didn't. I basically missed an open goal and it stings! It's just crazy to hire people based on that and not take into account length and type of experience, performance etc. especially in a creative job.

Creative / technical job I should say

Yes it is crazy it's an interviewer problem

Develop some resilience, crack on and stop feeling like the world owes you a living.

And I've sat on enough cs panels and done enough interviews as a candidate to know how it actually works. You claimed a candidate was guaranteed to fail if they did not use the star method, that is not true. You are now back tracking a bit.it can hardly result in far fewer points when behaviours are scored 1-7 and strengths scored 1-4.

I, and others who i have been on panels with, are more than capable on judging a candidate who hasn't used star against someone who has. If you can't, then stop being on interview panels.

You know people can use STAR evidence from a non work environment too? For example "Experience of managing a team" the evidence could be from organising and running a drama group outside of work.

Yes I do know that. But that doesn't relate to my point at all. That if they are trying to find the best person for the actual job we do this probably isn't the best way to do it. Being able to prepare star answers about when you helped in a school bake sale is commendable and I know I should have done the same (with actual examples that relate to our actual job), but to hire some one for a technical and creative role based soley on that is insane. Essentially it means you end up with a management team who are highly skilled in interview bullshit and potentially not much else.

I have no idea why I didn't come prepared with examples to questions like that. Am kicking myself. The whole thing has been totally humiliating and I'm just hoping there's some semblance of good that can come out of it eventually.

I mean this gently, but this may not be their opinion and the other candidate may have more experience. I understand why you wish to declare yourself better and this was just an admin issue, but the reality is they could have manipulated the scores, you clearly didn’t feel you did that badly at interview or you’d have known you’d not got it. You didn’t even suspect it. Which says the other candidate may have more to offer. Your statement that your better than them and have shown it, isn’t really something you’re able to judge,

if they are now to be your manager, you will need to try to accept they may have more potential and maybe better than you think.

yes you likely do have more experience and qualifications, but there is a much softer and wider judgement to be done in giving people roles.

But you've interviewed people for civil service roles? You must have had training in their approach and know the game? Yes. It's inflexible and tricky but as an insider you have a huge advantage in knowing how to answer the questions already. I've been turned down for civil service positions I'm perfectly qualified for and I'm sure it's partly due to the way they score. It is what it is. Of course it's gutting not to get a job but they demonstrated better evidence at interview and that's what keeps interviewers out of disciplinary action and potentially court. You have to be able to justify your decision based on the recruitment process, not because you know the candidate. That would be completely wrong.

I'm shocked the civil service treated you like this when you returned from maternity. Public sector roles are usually very accommodating of mothers returning to part-time.

As for the interview, civil service interviews are the most rigid and inflexible of any in the public sector, which is notorious for rigid and inflexible interviews. They are not supposed to score you on anything they know of you outside of the what you say in the interview. Its basically a test of how you perform in that type of interview. I worked in the civil service for a while and knew a woman where the managers in her team were desperate to promote her, but she just could not perform well in the interview. She failed interview round after interview round whilst having managers who knew her work and really wanted to promote her in their team. Its a ridiculous situation.

You are struggling with a lot in your personal life on top of the added struggle of being a single working mother. Its completely understandable you are feeling depressed. You are holding up a lot without any support. You have to support your daughter 100% whilst having no support yourself.

Sorry things are so tough for you OP.

It really sucks to screw up in interview.

Just remember, it's not personal, you just have to score enough points and it's a very blunt instrument.

Start getting new examples now and keep them for next time progression rolls around. Try and show you can work above grade in them.

Hope you feel better soon! It's rough.

5 years is a long time ago and a lot in the world has changed drastically since COVID.

The number of people on this thread who think that ignoring someone's CV/.application in an interview is a good idea, really genuinely surprises me. Equal.ops used to be about blanking out age and race information and not asking about childcare- that sort of thing. But now I've had people swear blind that your actual experience which you've told people about in the application form is irrelevant and that this is equal opportunities. Even in jobs where the long view and local knowledge is a big asset.
What about the system whereby you make it clear what is assessed in the interview and what is taken from the application form? So things like ' extensive experience of' should be on the JD and taken at least partly from the application form and interviewers should be able to credit that. Local network knowledge should be at least a desirable quality. A person who has successfully done a job for lengths of time clearly shows that on the application form ought to get scored highly regulated n relation to someone who has not. I've seen JDs which read like a long list someone has brainstormed and responding is like a guessing game.

It sucks that you didn’t get the job but you knew how civil service interviews worked so were very naive to think you had it in the bag and not do the right amount of prep. A week was plenty of time

For you maybe. It depends entirely on when your free time falls. Weekdays evenings can be impossible for parents.

Gently right back at you, yes this may have not been their opinion. I didn't do well at the interview. The other person did. But I've demonstrated tangibly over the last 5 years we've both been there that I perform better in the job than them, technically and leadership wise, and also have lots more experience. I don't have faith in the SMT, the company is on the brink of being shut down. I think they probably did pick the best person for this role in this company because I really hate them and the company (i didn't used to for the first 5 or so years!) and that probably shines through and is why I didn't prepare properly. Life is full of ups and downs and this is just one (on top of lots of others lately) that I'm going to need to ride out. I'm going to apply to other jobs and hopefully this will be the kick I need to get out of there. The thing is with the civil service is it has really good benefits, so you end up staying out of comfort.

I work full time with 2 children so I understand being busy. Op has a free day in the week also. You have to make time. Can’t use it as an excuse, or just don’t apply.

I think you've missed the point that the pp was making. You think you perform better, and you might even have solid evidence in terms of the technical stuff. The leadership side of things will be a subjective judgement though, and your employer may not share your assessment of your relative abilities.

Which OP knew when she applied for the job. Everyone had the same amount of prep time, it’s not anyone else’s failing she didn’t check her email on the Friday or didn’t use the weekend and evenings to prepare.
giving more time would have been an unfair advantage, same as planning around candidates personal calendar (although had they really wanted OP in that role it would have happened).

We’ve only got OPs claim to be excellent at her job, the reality could be she isn’t. And CS recruitment is very strict, subject to audit so must be transparent.

poor management isn’t unique to CS nor is anyone exempt from personal responsibility

It is possible to.be in a position where you know a lot about how something functions and through no fault of your own that makes for a difficult dynamic.

There are up to 5 elements in CS Success Profiles recruitment system of which experience is one.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/success-profiles/success-profiles-experience
It is pretty tightly defined: "Experience is the knowledge or mastery of an activity or subject by involvement in or exposure to it.". Could be covered by application, interview or presentation.
I know when I did the Success Profiles training we were told that "time served" wasn't a thing. It isn't length of service that is important - 5 years doing the same job doesn't rank any higher than 2 years. The candidate either has sufficient experience or they don't.

Yes and the best person for tne job is not simply about experience or qualifications. It is about a much wider set of skills that are softer; ability to lead, ability to manage both up and down, communication skills, interpersonal skills, ability to manage under pressure, potential to progress, work ethic, going the extra mile, leading by example, people skills, organisational ability, decision making ability, risk management ability,priotisation ability,

it’s a much wider set of skills than the op has considered, and it’s not about simply who has the most qualifications or had the best ideas or the most experience, even who did the best presentation or who answered best on tne day, as those are hugely subjective.

the op is still considering the job was hers for the taking, she’s saying she misssed an open goal,but has now decided she hates them so the other candidate likely was better, it’s all a very emotional response to not getting the job she thought she’d get.

Isn't that insane? Would you rather be dealt with by a surgeon with 20 years proven experience or 1? An estate agent who knows the market and the locality and has experience of market fluctuations over years, assuming there's nothing dodgy about it, is just going to be more effective.
If the job requires experience such as a team manager, of the activity they are managing, it's hugely irresponsible to be in the position where you could potentially employ someone who doesn't have a real.working knowledge of the role. I'm very surprised about the discourse around this. The civil.service wields power and as with many people jobs does affect people's lives.

With kindness OP I think YABU about the job interveiew, but YANBU to have some time off or a holiday. You've been through a lot and sounds like you're burnt out. Take care