To think this was unfair, and to take time off for mental health.

[Dawnchorus1]

I work in the civil service, and after returning from mat leave was given the choice of returning to my current job full time or taking a demotion if I wanted to do 3 or 4 days.

I took the demotion. This was nearly 5 years ago. I've contributed fully and enthusiastically in my role and been successful in working on big projects and having my ideas taken forward consistently (we work in an environment where most projects have a few people creating initial ideas which the clients then chose from). This despite being managed by 'replacement', being a single parent to my son, having little family support and having lost my mum suddenly last year, and have been working very hard at keeping my shit together.

We've gone through a restructure recently which has been horrendous for most involved and taken it's toll (multiple applications to apply for our own jobs etc). I kept my job luckily. Then a position opened up for my previous role. My son being at school now I thought it would be a good time to get my career back on track - up my hours and resume previous role.

So put in application. Got interview. Knew others were going for it, but being the one who had actually done the job before thought I had more than a good chance of getting it.

Invites for interview were sent out on the Friday - which is non working day for me so I didn't see it until the Monday morning, meaning I Iost a weekend of prep time. Interviews scheduled for the following Monday, so only a week's notice for me. We had to prepare a presentation for the interview (with no time scheduled during work to do so). This also happened to be the week of my mum's 1 year anniversary of her sudden death, and the week in which we buried her ashes. I see a therapist and the week before this she said she thought I was depressed - because I said I was struggling to get out of bed and do basic things like the washing up and laundry.

I worked hard to prepare a presentation. Long story short I didn't get the job - despite being told I had done a really good presentation. Because I 'didn't have enough examples on the behaviour and strength questions'. Despite having worked with these people closely for 5-10 years. They know I can solve a problem, they've seen me do it every week. Yes I could have had better answers. But last week was the worst week for me to have to prepare for this. I put the time and effort I had in me getting my presentation in good shape.

I'm absolutely devastated. I feel like crap and need advice about what to do next. Think I'll need to take some time off for mental health reasons, how do I go about this? I feel so angry. I'm not sure if they were allowed to do what they did with demoting me when returning from mat leave.

I’ve done a lot of these interviews in the civil service / public sector, on both sides of the table. Maybe 50 or so in total. The challenge is that you will be asked about a capability (usually 4 or so in total) and so you have to know your examples for each capability and then make sure you choose them correctly. So for example you might have a good example for data, but it could also fit for a teamwork or achieving results capability. You need to tailor it accordingly, and then if you’ve used it and you are asked for another example for another capability which would have fit you of course need to find a new and better one. On top of that you might be asked for a specific example eg one from your current role, or one during a period of change.

Like I said I’m pretty good at that but it did require a lot of prep and a good memory (and if you’ve used panic in an interview the process in your brain is such that it blocks the bit of your brain you use for accessing your memory).

So I should have been clearer that it’s not STAR structure, it’s more how it’s used in the public sector.

But when you’re in the situation you have worked with all the candidates and you already know who would be most competent, yet you’re forced to hire someone you know doesn’t work as well, yet interviews well, it’s hugely frustrating.

I can't see what they did wrong.

Oh, sorry, repeating a PP.
Take time off for mental health, they won't have you back.

The onus is on the internal candidate to check their emails when not at work and expecting something important surely!

I never said I was forced to take a demotion. The choice was part time and demotion or full time keep higher grade job. I wanted part time to spend time with my son while he was little. The civil service make a big thing of being flexible and family friendly. The job definitely could have been done on 4 days a week, it's nonsense to say it couldn't. They preferred my maternity cover and wanted to keep her, that's what happened.

But you didn’t need to let it. You could have stayed full time, they were willing to let you do that, as your maternity cover was, in the senior role.

you appear determined to position yourself as a victim due to your own choices.

you chose to have a child. You chose to go part time. You chose to take the lower grade role, you chose to not adequately prepare, you didn’t even appear to know what star was, you chose to not be prepared for an interview important to you, I assume as you thought it a formality.

you could have made different choices. No one else can take responsibility or be blamed for your choices. Your comment on they prefered your cover makes no logical sense, the job was available to you should you had chosen to continue in it. You said no thank you.

these are you choices. Had you made different choices you’d not be in this position.

To not be able to acknowledge that it's a hard choice, and one where neither is really the best option, when choosing between maintaining your career full time and going part time to spend time with your child while they're tiny is bizarre. It's one women have to make everyday and it's shit, no two ways about it.

Its really tough when you don't get a job you really wanted and the rejection can hit hard, especially when you arent in a great place mentally.

It doesnt sound as though your employer has done anything wrong tbh. They gave you the same opportunities as every other candidate for the role and on the day, someone else performed more strongly. Whilst it is unfortunate that the timing of the interview coincided with the anniversary of your loss, it isn't your employers fault this was the case and for fairness to all, they really can only consider each candidates performance during the recruitment process rather than how well you may have potentially performed at another time.

Take time to feel the disappointment, it is valid to feel how you feel, but try not to become consumed by it and allow yourself to slip into a hard done by/victim mindset.

Some practical suggestions:

• Take on board the feedback from the interview and work on strengthening your answers and examples to use for future opportunities.

• In terms of having less time because the interview invites were sent out on your non working day - in future apply using your personal email address to avoid missing such notifications.

• talk to colleagues/hr etc about potential opportunities that might be coming up in the future.

It may well be wise for you to take some time off to look after your mental health and that is valid if you're are struggling, however it seems this situation isn't really the cause of your MH being affected, more like the final straw that's made it too hard for you to cope at the minute.

Do reach out to your GP and friends and family for support and take care of yourself OP xx

It isn’t the best way - I’ve been on interview panels where an internal candidate who was brilliant and the absolute perfect person for the job went to pieces with nerves in the interview and therefore by the scoring matrix presented as the worst candidate that day.

HR would not budge from the scoring system to let me give her the job. Then I had the manage the person who did get the job who wasn’t half as good as the internal candidate.

It’s not a case of pregnant and screwed, it’s a case of being a mother and screwed. The ‘Motherhood Penalty’ is a well known and well studied phenomenon.

The structure of work, including interview processes, is an outcome of the patriarchal system that does little to accommodate the needs of working mothers. Please do not blame yourself as one individual mother just trying to do her damn best in the unforgiving world of work. Did your ex take a demotion? So many men able to walk away from their parenting responsibilities and leaving women to do the hard job of children and work. Really angers me.

Of course you have every right to feel angry and hurt. They know, and you know, that you could do that job. Ignore the posters also shifting the blame onto you. Not the right time FFS. Anyone would feel down given the circumstances you’re in and you’re a bloody star for keeping going.

OP I disagree with the people above saying your employer hasn’t done anything wrong. The situation sounds very demotivating and badly handled.

while they may not have given you the job, they should have made an effort to work with you on what your role will look like, what your next steps and development might look like.

Have they talked to you at all? (Your manager or someone more senior?)

best practise would be for someone to pick up with you very quickly after confirming you didn’t get the job with some acknowledgement that this may not have been the outcome you planned for and to look at what’s next for you.

you could ask for this. If you can process the most difficult of emotions, I think it would be ok for you to say to employer that you were of course disappointed that you weren’t offered the role particularly with the context of having previously delivered that role successfully. You’d like to discuss your development and next steps within the new structure. (You will need to park the most personal circumstances)

you can also be your own careers coach and look for other options

As a side note, this leaves me despairing of the civil service, such a rigid recruitment process is detrimental to good talent and motivated staff

I’m sorry I disagree, it is the penalty we face when we are not with someone who will not do their share of childcare, or we chose to have a child and can’t afford childcare. But it is irrelevant, the op said she wanted to go part time to spend time with her son when he was little. This is absolutely a valid decision, but she is not owed a career or to retain a senior job if she chooses to go part time to do that. That’s not how the world works nor should it. Businesses, companies, departments need to be able to function.

this is not about being penalised as she is a mother and I find it offensive to the women who are penalised due to it. Deeply. As many are.

tne op is not one of these women. She chose the lower role so she could go part time and spend more time wit her child. It is ludicrous to suggest she has in some way been penalised. Plenty of women, like men, go back to work full time when their children are little. She had this option. She declined it.

we get a years maternity, the expectation is to return to th4 workplace in the role we left, the op had that option, she prefered not to. Her decision. Her responsibility.

Yeah, I don’t work in that world anymore either, but it’s burned into my brain I think!

Why despairing ? I don’t get this, simply as the op declares herself the best person for the job and the person who got it not suitable does not remotely mean the hiring panel feel this to be the case.

of course she thinks she’s the best, she’s hardly going to come on and say she’s been a bit shit for the last 5 years but thought she should get it anyway.

it’s been 6 years inc maternity leave since she did it. It’s a long time. She chose not to go back into that role. Proactively when the option existed for her. She by her own admission didn’t prepare fully for the interview and messed up in this part. She didn’t even remember what star was. Even people not in the civil serve know this, which means she didn’t answer the questions posed to her, in a clear and full manner. That’s all it means.

i can assure you if they wished her in the role the scores would have been managed by the panel to ensure it. It could have been close and the other person has great potential and the best on the day won, or it could be she was never going to get it. None of us know.

There is nothing to indicate she’s not been through normal appraisal processes, and she is not entitled to some form of fast track promotion over others as she decided to spend time with her child rather than return to role.

Understandably you are disappointed but its how you deal with that disappointment that counts. I'd leave trying to blame them or yourself and look to the future. What do you want to happen now?

You sound lovely, hope that comment made you feel fab about yourself.

I can’t say what I really want to as my comment will get deleted.

You’re upset and that’s valid but you chose the demotion when you could have kept your job, that was your choice.

And realistically a week to prepare is not an unfairly short amount of time for interview prep, particularly considering you’ve been an interviewer on a panel and know exactly how it’s scored and that reliance cannot and will not be placed on your performance outside the scoring matrix.

I wouldn’t do anything rash and try to take it in your stride. Marching off on the sick when you wouldn’t have done so had you got the job you wanted will look at best like sulking and at worst like lying to get time off.

You could PM me 😉

Despairing because the process sounds like it’s been handled badly (not that the OP should have got the role).

Would be good to hear the OP to come back on here and say her manager has now spoken to her and they have a plan to work with her on development.

Why has it been handled badly?

The role was advertised, she was short listed and interviewed and didn't get it?

It is up to the up how she moves forward, she needs to seek feedback and work on what she can do to improve.

I don’t see how it was handled badly. It followed a process. Advertised, she applied, she interviewed, she was not awarded the role. Normal appraisal process deals with development. She doesn’t need something extra as she chose to take a reduced role.

YABVVU! Mental health reasons because you didn’t get the job? Grow up!

@Wildgoat @IwishIcouldconfess interested to know which sectors you work in? And do you manage teams?

I would always pick up with an unsuccessful internal candidate as much of op’s reaction is normal - slight embarrassment etc (more complex here with prior role and personal circs)

ETA some team members might brush it off but others might need more input

Why are you deliberately ignoring her bereavement which has hugely contributed to her mental health decline? I don’t think taking time off is the right step but that’s a mean post ignoring half OPs problem

The whole restructure has been handled really badly. No, my manager told me the news yesterday in our regular 121, without any warning it was the feedback meeting. Told me I hadn't got it but she couldn't talk as had just been at the dentist, said something about I did a good presentation but not enough examples in the questions. They went. She knows I was upset about it.

She's not contacted me at all today - and I'm not in till Monday now. I emailed her to say I was disappointed but realise I messed up with the questions and can I have some more detailed feedback to learn from, she's put a meeting in for next Tues.

One of the other designers was encouraged to go for the same role, put the application in and didn't even get an interview (considering we're quite a small team it's not like it's a massive organisation), no one told him in person, he just got an automated email to say he wasn't being invited for an interview on a Friday morning. He asked the person who he was sitting next to in the office (my manager) if she was part of the decision, she said yes but she was too busy to talk about it (rubbish), and then made some patronising comment on the way out.

People who have been made redundant but still working for us because they're in the redeployment pool have been told they need to do their days in the office and they can't see why people might not want to come in.

Meanwhile nearly all of SMT have had a promotion. No managers layed off. No one held accountable for the fact we're having to downsize due to bad management (we expanded far too quickly).

I mean it's never going to be pretty, but this one feels like an exercise in how do you piss off and upset and stress as many people out of absolutely possible. The main boss behind it I have never liked, he enjoys putting people on edge. I feel like he's probably been getting a kick out of the whole thing. One good thing about not getting the role is that I won't see him as much or have much to do with him