Remember not to work harder than the people you're helping

[Bargepole45]

Just saw this and thought how true it was in so many aspects of life. I think it's a pretty good mantra to live by.

Without knowing the details, I'd say she should.

But I'd also say that I wouldn't think that this would apply at all to that scenario.

My immediate thought was of two senior managers I once had. One was a very hard worker, no doubt that when I worked hard so did he. The other expected us to run ragged whilst he did nothing. He had no respect, and as a result wasn't respected himself.

The lesson of this thread is that mantras are useful for the situation that is useful for you, not for generalised purposes.

I will take that as a no then. TBH I already knew your answer based on your other posts. I read your other posts because motives are very relevant on threads like these.

I truly believe that a society which doesn’t support our must vulnerable, including those who for whatever reason come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, has truly lost its moral compass. That’s not a society in which I or any reasonable person would want any part of.

I’ll leave you to it now. You clearly want to discuss your ideas within an echo chamber rather than having an actual conversation.

In future it’s probably best not to post in ‘Am I being Unreasonable’ if you can’t handle it when people point out that you are.

That is sad to read. Sometimes life is just too tough for some people, for whatever reasons. Your relative sounds fortunate to have people around her, like yourself, who obviously care, though.

Never give more of yourself than you can afford

is possibly a better mantra. It concentrates more on giving as much as you can but stopping before burn out. Burn out helps no one.

Really? So if my mum is infirm or sick, I shouldn’t do her chores because she technically isn’t working as hard as me?

please can you give me examples?

OP I agree with you.

I take it to mean that the people you are helping should be helping themselves in direct proportion to what they are capable of doing. The hard work referred to in the quote is relative to the capacity of the person receiving the help. If the most someone can do to help themselves is 10% of what you can do. They should still be doing the 10%. The hard work is the same for both people in terms of effort even though the output may be different.

The effort is matched and equal. Not one person doing less than what they are capable of doing because the other person can do it all.

I am open to all views about the mantra I posted. I don't want an echo chamber but I also don't want my thread hijacked. I want to stay on topic.

Read my posts properly and you will see my views are far more nuanced than you are suggesting. You would discover I have a disabled family member and I am from a lower socioeconomic background myself. I am not immune to any of this stuff so please don't even try to lecture me. I only mention this because you weirdly want this thread to be about SEN/benefits and want to goad me to debate them with you. I won't but I won't be depicted as some kind of monster. This is my last response to you

She should be doing as much as she can within her capability. If that’s 5% of what you can do or even 1% then that’s ok. Her 100% effort will not achieve the same outcome as your 100% effort but it’s still hard work for her.

I think that is what the quote is meaning.

Exactly, and some people with disabilities/health problems might be doing the best they can. If I can carry furniture easily, I might seem to be working ten times harder than my friend, but she's actually trying far harder than me because of her medical condition.
I found reading easy, but other children in my class might have had additional needs.

Exactly! That's how I interpret it too.

This is one of those catchphrases which sounds snappy but is pretty vapid.

It doesn't apply to a huge range of situations in which there are vast imbalances in ability, strength, resources etc. For instance, I often take five minutes out of my frenziedly busy day to help a junior colleague with a much easier task that they're nonetheless struggling with. It wouldn't be much good to anyone if I said 'you're not working as hard as me, so I'm not going to help you', would it?

And how do you even assess how hard someone is working anyway? How can I know whether another person is giving 10%, 50% or 100% of their efforts to a task before I step in to assist?

Doesn't it make much more sense to say "Give what help you can, where you are able, without damaging yourself?" Less pithy than OP's trite little café sign, but a bit more realistic.

Yes quite honestly.
Their effort may look different, but they do all I hope expend effort. You Dad with dementia may be using all his effort to not hit you, to smile at you, or even to swallow. That's his effort. Fair enough.
Yes, your autistic DC is able to learn even if only in the smallest increments. It may take 100% of his effort to get dressed. Fair enough.
Pnd - same.
Drug rehab. Absolutely definitely. Trauma definitely. No one gets better through the work of outside agencies alone. You know this. People have to engage and help themselves every time.

I have heard a very similar saying in the context of people in twelve step recovery programs. There, I think it makes good sense. Sponsors are recovering addicts who offer to help other addicts work the steps, drawing on their own experience. They are not professionals and they are not paid.

Imagine the sponsor tells the sponsee to read a chapter of a book, go to a meeting, ring someone every day, or whatever it may be - and the sponsee doesn’t do it, then the mantra comes into effect. The sponsor can tell the sponsee what to do and encourage them to do it. But they can’t do it for them. They might remind, cajole, or encourage, a few times.

Eventually the point comes when you have to stop chasing and leave them to it - always telling them to keep your number and get back in touch if they want to actively work the program. Your time will be better spent giving that guidance and support to someone who is willing to do the work, because only by doing the work will they recover. Chasing someone who is not doing the work is wasted effort.

I really only think other posters would understand this phrase and how it applies if they have been in a position where the have given so much help to a person who seems unwilling to help themselves in spite of their ability to assist in hard work of ‘helping’…

You really wouldn’t find any comfort in this if you were helping the elderly, frail, infirm, children etc. ie people who genuinely were in need of charitable help from a more abled person.

I think a better phrase which is easier to understand in this context is ‘you don’t have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm’

I read that as discouraging enabling of dysfunctional behaviour. Seems reasonable enough. There really is not one single mantra that covers every eventuality life throws our way so this seems fair enough.

No I don’t feel used. I decided a long time ago that I didn’t want to see relationships as transactional, I think that leads to bitterness. I have agency, if I decide to do something that is my decision and mine alone. No one owes me anything in return.

I do enjoy being helpful and making other people’s days a little less shite. So maybe that is what I get back.

Also, I’m not a martyr about it. I only give what I am able. I think that is important.

In some ways I'd like to follow that advice. However, as a teacher it would not exactly do wonders for my results. Working hard to drag a reluctant horse to drink water is pretty much par for the course.

Guessing OP isn't a brain surgeon.

You probably need to show compassion to go into medicine, so I doubt it.

I don't know. I gave up helping my mum under those grounds. She wouldn't ever help herself so I stopped too, after decades of supporting a single minded, ill addict. She killed herself recently and I'd not known she'd been having any issues - I would have if I'd kept on trying even when she wouldn't, even if I couldn't have changed anything. It was much less unexpected to my brother.

I am a carer to someone with physical and mental disability and I also work full time in a support role. I am also a parent. I try to encourage people to do what they can in all those areas of my life; it doesn't always work, but it uplifts me when it does. I think sometimes, one's mentality can be so internally self destructive or panicked that it's not possible to put in any effort to help yourself. Your whole self is just crying out for you to implode. I have felt that at times, certainly, and seen it often in others. Those people should still be helped.

I've seperately known a lot of proper lazy arses, who'll happily ask for help then sit and watch you do it all. I definitely stopped helping those people! Nowt wrong and no reason at all, just lazy and they'd prefer to chat at you while you did it all instead. PTA events, church/school fairs, packing up to move, packing down camping things - all prime areas for this!

Your other posts provide enough context for where and how you got this view OP.

We don't have to be dogs to hear this whistle, we all know what you're getting at.

What nonsense! You have no idea about the life experiences I have had or why I would adopt this mantra. You have no idea about context.

Most people have responded to this thread in the spirit it was intended. You and @plims are determined to turn it into something it isn't. You aren't the MN police and it isn't your job to identify ulterior motives on threads that didn't even mention the topics that you insist the thread is really about. As you will see from my posting history, I don't beat around the bush and I'm not afraid to engage in controversial discussions but this isn't really one of them and I don't what it to be hijacked into one just because you might not agree with me on other stuff.

Very well said. I totally agree.

I hope Paramedics don't live by this mantra.

They get paid. That's a bit different.

And who knows how hard the people they help are working!