Remember not to work harder than the people you're helping

[Bargepole45]

Just saw this and thought how true it was in so many aspects of life. I think it's a pretty good mantra to live by.

It’s a very transactional, rather cold outlook. I’d genuinely hate to see things that way.

I get a great deal of satisfaction from helping the people I work with, both professionally and in my volunteer work. They are at a stage in their lives where they are definitely not capable of putting in as much effort and that’s okay.

Sooner or later, everyone ends up needing someone else to put in more effort than they themselves can manage at that moment in time. Anyone who can’t see that this will also be them at some point in their lives is deluded

It’s hardly a “mantra to live by” as it doesn’t reflect that giving help to others is such a nuanced thing; potentially wildly varying depending on the situation. Lots of people require a lot of help without being able to make a contribution of their own.
A better maxim would be “avoid letting people take the piss”

“Mantras to live by” are all pretty crap though. Navigating the complexities of life requires a bit thought than following a cliché.

I think there are a lot of other examples, and I don’t understand why so many posters don’t get it.

@Lougle
It's a really selfish point of view. If you're helping someone, they are in some way in need and unable to achieve the required outcome themselves

“In some way”, can, in my experience, mean, the person in need of help can’t be arsed..

I have to say, I think I mostly agree. And it's definitely about energy and effort, not outcomes.

I suspect the people who agree are also the people who have been burnt by people who take and take and take and take and don't put any effort into helping themselves.

I disagree that lots of people require a lot of help without making a contribution of their own. Virtually everyone can contribute something. Working hard can achieve different outcomes for different people. For example someone in the depths of depression may be working hard by allowing themselves to rest and working through their issues with professionals. They don't need to be expending all their energy running around doing practical tasks or working hours in paid employment to be working hard in this context. The point is that they are doing what they can to help themselves and that's what counts.

What about how we support wider society. For example, my dd is autistic and was absent from school for a long nag period of time because she found it really difficult. She now has a lot of support in place and is able to attend. In what world is that a bad thing?

This is just bullshit. My disabled relative is both willing and incapable.
What does your stupid saying say about that?

Are they doing all they can to help themselves? If so then what else can you ask of them?

for me if i can help and may or may not be better does it matter as long as it helps the person ?

OP, on another thread you said there’s some merit to the idea that people who are a net negative in tax shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

You also agreed that some benefits claimants should be employed by local councils to do the sorts of jobs that have been cut over the years i.e. keeping parks tidy, staffing public toilets, cleaning road signs, and so on.

So while you haven’t said it outright here, what you’re really doing is benefits-bashing dressed up as philosophy, albeit a rather nonsensical one at that.

I understand what you mean OP. It's about not getting lumbered with doing a huge amount of favours for people who are capable themselves but just prefer others to do the donkey work.

It's a common phenomenon in my workplace. There are people who are bone idle and always claiming they are too busy to take on new cases or dawdle over them. So when big important cases come in our boss dumps them on those of us who are already stretched. I have challenged this and he said "well I know you'll get it done and do it properly". It feels a bit like a punishment for working hard .. work even harder!

@LadyKenya at times she didn’t help herself because she can’t. But when she has help and medication and is mentally well enough to deal with her physical health and get out and about (in whatever limited way she can) she refuses to try. Not just my assessment. But also that of the MH team working with her.

I feel that life is often too complicated to have one mantra that applies to all situations. However, I quite like the expression "I would prefer not to", from Bartleby the Scrivener. I don't use it often though becuase I like to help people, but there are definitely times when it's appropriate to deploy.

Yet I haven't mentioned benefits or attempted to steer the conversation on to benefits. This would be the weirdest, most obtuse attempt at so called benefit bashing ever.

To be honest I don't even want to acknowledge your weird post trawling on my views on benefits when some have been taken out of context. The irony of you accusing me of making a thread about benefits and then literally turning trying to make a general thread into one about benefits isn't lost on me. If you want to debate benefits go and find a thread about them.

But your very transactional “saying” was about quantifying and comparing effort to establish whether someone is, indeed, deserving of your help.

There’s no way to compare a severely depressed person’s effort in just getting out of bed to the time and effort of the carer feeding, tidying, medicating and keeping company with them.

A question for OP and other posters on this thread who agree with her. Do you believe my autistic daughter should have access to state-funded support in school? I ask because, in another thread, the OP appeared to suggest that SEN support itself is a problem.

No, that isn't what I suggested. Stop taking my ideas out of context and trying to hijack this thread with debates on SEN and benefits. There are millions of threads on these issues. Go and find someone to have the arguments you obviously want to have there.

Did you want a debate or an echo chamber? Why post in AIBU if you didn’t want to talk with people who disagree with you.

Do you think my dd should have access to state funded support in school?

This. ^

Inexplicably though, the OP is still doubling down, and insisting her 'mantra' is correct and everyone must agree with it. 🙄

If only that were true.

I want to discuss the mantra. Not your daughter. I've never mentioned SEN or benefits or anything that you want to make this thread about. If I wanted to discuss the phrase in these contexts then I would have mentioned it by now. Your obsession is getting weird. If you want to debate your daughter's SEN provision start a thread about it.

Does Karma Credit ever make you feel used or are you genuinely happy to help?

I like "Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm". Because you burning yourself out will do nothing in the long term to help another person. But that doesn't mean that, so long as you're physically and emotionally safe, you can't put as much into supporting another person as you want to, regardless of what they are doing for or to themselves.

Unless you are talking about 16 year olds and a maths GCSE. Then I have to bust a gut and they don't give a shit

So yes, of course your daughter should have all the support she needs. But that shouldn't come at the expense of someone else's mental or physical health. I don't know your daughter, but hypothetically, say she had a disability which resulted in her being violent and injuring people around her. That's not her fault, she shouldn't be blamed for it. But equally the adults supporting her will need support themselves to manage being exposed to violence. And they will need help to avoid burning out.