AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

[sunshine240778474]

Yesterday I took the kids to the local library (Inverness, scotland). The local library has a kids area. The kids area has a nice artificial grass mat for the kids to sit and read their books on.

When I entered the library there was a man who had folded the kids mat over so he could kneel on the floor and pray to Allah.

Therefore this prevented the kids from sitting on the mat and reading their books.
The man was praying for a while.

I don't have a problem with someone praying if that's what they want to do.

Is it appropriate to be doing it in the kids area in a local library?

Also, there was a woman curled up in the corner of the library sleeping. This was also in the kids area.

I've seen people sleeping in the library on a few occasions now. I've never seen it in the kids' area.

Ofcourse, I feel sorry for her if she's tired, but again is it appropriate to be using the local library, especially the kids area, as a shelter?

I left the library, and told the staff politely, I didn't find it kid friendly.

Was I being unreasonable?

I find it so funny that OPs photo of a folded over mat is somehow ‘evidence’ that this actually happened, but some people will read anything they believe online.

It will be an anti Muslim mumsnet conspiracy

Of course Muslims who live in Muslim-majority countries pray publicly. They simply don’t need to any where nearly as often, because there are far more mosques and prayer spaces.

Jesus 😂

If this is true, it’s weird. Men should not be in a children’s area, unless with children of their own. I really do question the sanity of people praying in public spaces.

Placemarking for (hopefully) the deletion message.

What’s your opinion on it if it were true?

I said if a Muslim man were homeless. They would need to have access to a bathroom (washing) and a relatively quiet space. You can't do that on the street, in a shopping centre etc. As I keep saying and you keep ignoring, public libraries have long been used by councils as spaces for adults as substitutes for shelters, day centres etc.
Even if he was housed, if he were at the library for another reason, eg to study or to job hunt, he would be expected to pray at specific times of the day. In contrast to Christianity, most Muslims would pray multiple times a day, therefore it's much more likely to be done somewhere public (which is why most council buildings will offer a designated quiet room or multi faith room, though they can be used by anyone for any purpose as long as they're not disturbing others)

A christian woman was removed and arrested by police for silently praying near an abortion centre I think.

I don't know if that was a 'dominance display'.

There are plenty of mosques.

I’m not really sure what you mean by that.

OP is clearly not liberal, so I assume you don’t mean her.

Given that I am black, and politically moderate, I assume you don’t me me either 😅

Or … were you just assuming I was white?

Is that supposed to be some sort of ‘gotcha’? Because it doesn’t make sense. Everyone in the UK is free to practise any religion or none. There are dozens of ways in which anyone might encounter the expressions of any faith, and it used to be the case (and mainly still is) that we all rub along together just fine.

Do you spend a lot of time focussing specifically on not offending ex-Muslims? I suspect not, if you were honest.

So ..to recap you’re saying this guy is fine doing this in the kids area of the library as long as he’s a Muslim homeless man. And if he isn’t? Would you consider his behaviour inappropriate?

@Blueharmonica So your point is that because there might be books on religion then it becomes religious space? I’m still not clear.

You're not clear because you keep changing what I said.

I didn't say a space becomes a religious space if there are books on religion. All I stated was that the presence of books on religion does not conflict with a space being a religion-neutral space.

"neutrality on religion does not mean that religion should not have a presence in the library."

Nor am I clear what this has got to do with channel crossings? Or deeply affecting anyone ?

It was you who brought "virtue signalling" into this. If you don't want to have a discussion about "virtue signalling," then don't raise the topic.

The op has described and shown a photo where a man went into the middle of the children’s area and rolled up the children’s play mat and started praying.

As I said previously, I am questioning whether this actually happened.

That is not comparable with twirling your hair is it?

Literally no one said that moving a children's play mat is comparable to twirling your hair.

99% of all argument with people on the left is them pretending not to understand what you are saying.

Yes, but what about ‘the rest?’

To read, yes. Not to pray publicly or have a nap.

No it’s not common. Racist dog whistles are though.

Kids areas being used by kids and parents.

This is what you said ;

Praying is a separate point and it is acceptable solely on the basis that it doesn't interfere with anyone else. Just as it's also acceptable to twirl your hair because you're not interfering with anyone else

Now this is naughty, you wouldn’t be pretending not to understand and insinuating I’m racist simply because your argument is incoherent would you now? Tut tut, you’re better than that @SpiritAdder

If he didn’t have a child with him, then no, he shouldn’t be using the children’s section of a library to pray. Just like I’d find any adult man loitering in the childrens section when not accompanying a child, inappropriate. It’s just performative posturing. Pray in the privacy of your own home, or at religious sites such as churches and mosques, which are set up for prayer.

Yes, I know what I said.

Praying is acceptable because it doesn't interfere with anyone else.

You mentioned moving a children's play mat. Moving a children's play mat to pray is clearly not acceptable.

But I have already said multiple times that I am questioning whether that actually happened, because it would make absolutely no sense for a Muslim to move a play mat when libraries have lots of empty space.

I work in a large city library too, also containing CAB, a homelessness advice centre (for whom we triage), employment support etc. We don't allow unaccompanied adults in the children's area, we don't provide designated prayer places, we don't allow people to sleep in the library and people can be asked to leave if personal hygeine is lacking. They will also be asked to leave if we think they're under the influence of drink and drugs.

We can signpost vulnerable customers to the relevant teams (realistically cuts in funding means directing them to the freephone so they can call the relevant council department - not much face to face these days) whilst having to balance their requirements with ensuring that the library is a pleasant environment for all, especially those coming in with children.

It's very challenging.

Ah so we agree the behaviour was inappropriate as described, but you don’t believe it happened? Could you have not have said that 5 posts ago? It came across that you were arguing that behaviour was fine. A bit confusing, but we got there in the end.