AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

[sunshine240778474]

Yesterday I took the kids to the local library (Inverness, scotland). The local library has a kids area. The kids area has a nice artificial grass mat for the kids to sit and read their books on.

When I entered the library there was a man who had folded the kids mat over so he could kneel on the floor and pray to Allah.

Therefore this prevented the kids from sitting on the mat and reading their books.
The man was praying for a while.

I don't have a problem with someone praying if that's what they want to do.

Is it appropriate to be doing it in the kids area in a local library?

Also, there was a woman curled up in the corner of the library sleeping. This was also in the kids area.

I've seen people sleeping in the library on a few occasions now. I've never seen it in the kids' area.

Ofcourse, I feel sorry for her if she's tired, but again is it appropriate to be using the local library, especially the kids area, as a shelter?

I left the library, and told the staff politely, I didn't find it kid friendly.

Was I being unreasonable?

I don't think implying you support segregation of people by religion is really helping your cause here lol.

It’s not the building. You seem to not get the context at all, I can’t think how else to explain this to you. Would you understand if it was a mother and baby changing room? Or the roof of someone’s car ?

No. Makes no sense to me.
Flying is the perfect time for praying. Especially when you’ve got two engines of four in flames. You should have heard it, most of the people on plane were praying loudly. I don’t think the pilots would be any exception.

https://prayerlit.com/prayers-for-pilots/

Or are these pilot prayers ok because they are in English instead of Arabic so the word for God used isn’t Allah.

How is praying an intimidating or provocative act?

I'm an atheist, so I don't really get the praying thing, but I realise it's important to those who have religious faith and I can't see anything intimidating about it.

None of those are intimidating. The last one could be considered a dereliction of duty but not if the plane is in autopilot and the first officer in control.

Muslims who live in Muslim-majority countries do not pray in public spaces. It's just not done. By contrast, some Muslims living in Western societies have begun doing so more visibly, and it's a trend that has become more noticeable over the past five years.

It is inappropriate, rude, and completely performative.

(Edited for syntax).

What’s ‘our culture’ ?

@GladHedgehog Not hilarious by any means. What is wrong with you.

What if he wanted a discrete masturbation? Okay in a library? Or shouldn't he do this stuff at home?

The segregation was by use (library) age (children) and relationship (guardian of children). Can you explain how religion even comes into this?

@Blueharmonica So your point is that as there are books on religion, it is fully acceptable to practice religious ceremonies in the children’s area of the library?

No, I didn't say that.

The first point I made is that neutrality on religion does not mean that religion should not have a presence in the library. The presence of religious texts in the library shows that it is acceptable for religion to have a presence in the library, and this does not conflict with the concept of religious neutrality.

Praying is a separate point and it is acceptable solely on the basis that it doesn't interfere with anyone else. Just as it's also acceptable to twirl your hair because you're not interfering with anyone else. Religious activities that do interfere with other people (such as preaching) would obviously not be acceptable because that would be bothering other people in a place intended for silent reading.

Here's a hint: any time you feel the need to say "so your point is..." or "so you're saying that..." that means you have not understood what someone else has said and you are about to completely misinterpret their point.

What are your thoughts on how you’d extend this logic to books about tennis, tonsillectomy or nudism in the children’s area of the library?

Those activities interfere with other people, so the library is not the place for those.

Honestly the logical gymnastics some people go through simply to signal virtue is ridiculous.

I'm not virtue signalling. I have already explicitly stated that I'm one of the people who wants all channel crossings to stop and I think we should also have tougher controls on legal immigration.

But praying doesn't bother me, and it shouldn't bother you either. Have you ever heard the term "pick your battles"? There are lots of things that deeply affect me and those are the battles I choose to fight. Praying has absolutely no effect on me, so I do not care about it.

I wouldn’t worry because honestly there is a 0.01% chance this actually happened, despite OP providing a photo of a folded over rug with some shoes near it.

Well masturbation in public is illegal, praying isn’t. HTH.

Hmm I guess the praying was that the only area with a soft mat he could use?
Sleeping is a bit inappropriate but I guess I just feel sorry for her to have to resort to sleeping in a library if times are that tough. I would probably turn a blind eye to it.

There's been a few threads about this recently (people praying in unusual places/seemingly causing obstructions). How strange that I've never seen anyone mention it before and suddenly there's multiple people coming across people praying like this. I wonder what's causing it?

They definitely do. 🤨
In fact during Eid it’s tradition to pray in an open public space as part of the celebrations.

Apparently not one where people have the freedom to practice their religion.

What about the needs of ex-Muslims? Do Muslims, praying in public, cause them to feel intimidated?

You seem to think that me disagreeing with you is me not getting it. You have explained your view, I have a different view.
I have worked in the public sector for years. Council libraries are, and have been for years now, multi use buildings where adults are encouraged to go, as safe spaces, warm spaces, to be open to all. They are very much the unofficial alternative to day shelters, places for lonely people to go, places for the homeless or mentally ill to go. As I mentioned earlier ours has CAB, housing and banking services all within the library space. If for example a Muslim man was homeless, unless there is a mosque in walking distance, a library would be one of the few places I could think of that they could actually go to. It would have been preferable not to use the kids section, but if the room was pretty much empty then I can't see an issue with it.

Mumsnet seems to have this nostalgic idea that libraries are full of people reading. They still lend books but public libraries are in the main essentially community centres, outside of the flagship city centre venues.

So your point is that because there might be books on religion then it becomes religious space? I’m still not clear.
Nor am I clear what this has got to do with channel crossings? Or deeply affecting anyone ?

The op has described and shown a photo where a man went into the middle of the children’s area and rolled up the children’s play mat and started praying. That is not comparable with twirling your hair is it? Saying that, if a random man went into the chijdren area and sat in the middle of the room twirling their hair for ten minutes then that would be equally out of order.

unless there is a mosque in walking distance
there is one, less than ten mins away.

You can’t think of anywhere for a muslim
man to go other than the kids area of a library? What do you mean?

Maybe try another of the other libraries in Inverness - there’s at least one attached to a primary school so maybe more what you’re looking for.

Also (not that it really matters) I’m pretty sure there’s only one homeless person in Inverness and he’s homeless because the council won’t allow his dog to go with him so he’s choosing to stay with his dog.

Highly doubt it!

Apparently not one where people have the freedom to practice their religion…..,in a designated children’s area of a library.