AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

[sunshine240778474]

Yesterday I took the kids to the local library (Inverness, scotland). The local library has a kids area. The kids area has a nice artificial grass mat for the kids to sit and read their books on.

When I entered the library there was a man who had folded the kids mat over so he could kneel on the floor and pray to Allah.

Therefore this prevented the kids from sitting on the mat and reading their books.
The man was praying for a while.

I don't have a problem with someone praying if that's what they want to do.

Is it appropriate to be doing it in the kids area in a local library?

Also, there was a woman curled up in the corner of the library sleeping. This was also in the kids area.

I've seen people sleeping in the library on a few occasions now. I've never seen it in the kids' area.

Ofcourse, I feel sorry for her if she's tired, but again is it appropriate to be using the local library, especially the kids area, as a shelter?

I left the library, and told the staff politely, I didn't find it kid friendly.

Was I being unreasonable?

Surely nobody could possibly think this man's behaviour was fine! A man shouldn't be in the childrens area unless he was accompanying a child and what horribly entitled behaviour to move the children's mat for his personal use!

No, you're wrong.

In Saudi Arabia open air prayer is allowed only in designated musallas.

In UAE it is allowed only in approved areas.

In Qatar it is allowed only in designated prayer grounds.

In Egypt unlicensed open air prayer is banned.

In Turkey it is allowed only in approved squares.

In Morocco pre planned events for open air prayer are permitted, but authorities retain the right to cancel the event at any point beforehand.

In Indonesia it is allowed but regulated locally.

In Malaysia it is allowed but regulated.

In Pakistan it is allowed for Sunnis, but Ahmadis are banned.

In Bangladesh it is only allowed in designated Eidgahs.

In Jordan it is only allowed in designated areas.

In Algeria it is regulated.

In Tunisia it is regulated.

And in the central Asian states (some of which I have lived and studied in) such as Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan etc. it is often restricted.

Hence, Muslim-majority states treat large public prayer gatherings as something that must be regulated by the state, rather than something people can freely organize anywhere in public space. So yes the where, the when, and the how it occurs, especially outdoors, is tightly controlled.

Bottom line: it's really not typical for people to perform individual prayers randomly in the middle of public places, especially as nearby mosques and prayer spaces are readily available in Islamic countries. Its generally expected that worshipers use a mosque or a designated prayer area.

@sunshine240778474 you’re quite right to question praying and sleeping! It’s quite a feat to do both at the same time.

@Blueharmonica Ah so we agree the behaviour was inappropriate as described, but you don’t believe it happened? Could you have not have said that 5 posts ago?

So if you actually read the thread, you will see that you replied to a comment that I made in response to someone who suggested that no one should be allowed to pray in a library.

"Anyone, praying would be asked to leave. A Muslim asked permission once. I refused because a library is an apolitical and non religious space."

This wasn't in relation to a children's mat being moved. I disagree that anyone praying in a library should be asked to leave, so this is what I took issue with.

If you had been more direct in your posts instead of looking for ways to distort everything being said, then sure, I would have said that it's never acceptable to move a children's play mat to pray.

So ……. yes we agree his behaviour as described by the op was inappropriate?

Absolutely not ok. There's a time and place for prayer and it isn't in the bloody kids section of a library

It’s to do with identity politics, some people can’t see people as individuals or past their prejudices. It’s just weird. If it was a white Christian man taking off his shoes, getting out a mat a doing 5 mins of yoga in the kids area of a library then I think it would be unanimous condemnation of the behaviour.

It's the place they were doing it which was inappropriate .

@Blueharmonica So ……. yes we agree his behaviour as described by the op was inappropriate?

I believe I've said multiple times that, if this incident has happened, then yes, the behaviour was inappropriate.

I used to work as a branch librarian and all kinds of surprising things went on there. As others have pointed out we did get people sleeping and on the whole we tended to turn a blind eye if they were quiet and innoffensive. One evening a man worse the wear from drink would not leave at 9pm when I wanted to close the library. He got very bad tempered when I shook him. I had no choice but to call the police. They arrested him (not very gently) and took him away.

Another time a man peed in a corner behind the shelves. A shocked waman came up and informd me. I simply ordered the janitor to clean it up.

No one ever prayed in my library. However we did have outreach avtivities like lectures and poetry and folk evening. One night we even bad a barber's shop chorus attended by over 100 people. There were noisy children's activities every two weeks. One evening a woman who was studying complained about the noise. I told her that the library is for everyone, not just students. So she might like to avoid that particuar evening when we were entertaining children and use the reference library instead.

Many of the libraries where I used to work in Liverpool are now closed or turned into community hubs staffed by volunteers. One was burned down in the riots last year.

I’m trying to imagine an adult praying in this photo or sleeping and it just doesn’t work. It’s a play area. You wouldn’t do it unless trying to be awkward and prove a point. Same as you wouldn’t sleep and pray in Tesco.

Haha that's what I was going to say. Right next to him. And then lots of praying to Jesus. Except @sunshine240778474 had young dcs to supervise. They could maybe take a friend next time in case there's people praying and do this?
I'd definitely complain in writing. Non of this is good or appropriate.

There is nothing wrong with prayer and rest in an appropriate / designated area within the building.

The children’s area is for children! End of!

I don't know. It's good for kids to know that people come in all sorts, after a while they won't find such things strange if they encounter them occasionally. It won't happen all the time and, odd though it may seem to many adults, it's not harmful, it makes life interesting.

For all we know he was in the library picking up a book for his child, realised the time and quickly got down to his prayers. Or maybe there were people using the other areas of the library at the time and he felt moving to an empty at the time area was most appropriate/fair to other library users/he felt more comfortable away from others

Assuming he wasn't shooting dirty looks or asking you to leave the space then it didn't really affect your visit, doesn't stop your child looking for a book or you sitting down to read to them. He would have been finished within 10 minutes or so.

Rolling up the mat instead of moving away slightly is a bit odd but 🤷 still can't see it being a huge issue that would warrant writing the library off!

My kid would probably ask what he was doing, and it would be a chance to explain that he's practicing his religion

Unless he was sitting with a child in the children’s area, I’d have told him to get the fuck out!

There’s a time and place for everything and commandeering a children’s library area for praying isn’t on!
Why should we make allowances for everyone else.

So, did the man have his children with him?
I struggle to believe that someone would choose the children's area out of the whole library to pray? Couldn't find another corner is it?
Why was he even there?
And a lady sleeping? Did she have her kids with her and she was lying next to them? Taking too much space was she?
Go put it on the local news, homeless woman uses children's library to sleep.

This post just sounds pathetic, very pathetic and pedantic.
Bet you'd complain if people were taking up too much space simply reading too.
Ain't got nothing better to do smh

To read!

Everything when it’s in the middle of a library and preventing kids having full access. He should have found somewhere private like a mosque or home. I suppose I could pop down to the local library in my cloak, draw a circle and triangle on the floor, take my dagger and start summoning demons. I assume that would be fine too, depending which demon I’m going to need specific candles, silver etc so might need a bit of space.

I’d be wary of any man who specifically chose a kids area in a library for anything other than helping his kids with books tbh

Oh yes, so far if seen the isial

1. what ifs…,
2. everyone is welcome
3. id use it as an opportunity to teach my kids…
4. he should be allowed to do whatever he wanted

I agree that the children's area is for children and their parents only

I’m not sure why the idea of praying to Jesus would be offensive in other countries. You do realise that Muslims see Jesus as the second to last Prophet before Muhammad?

He was on the mat!

Or their childminders.