To be seriously considering finally cutting my mum out of my life?

[MotherIssues21]

My mum has never been great, my whole entire life. She is one of these mums where you had a roof over your head, food in your mouth, clothes on your back, nice presents for special occasions - but that’s as far as it went. There was never any actual nurturing, I don’t remember my mum ever telling me she loved me, hugging me, meeting any of my emotional needs as a child. She is only in her 50’s, so not of that older generation really either.

The last decade or so hasn’t been easy for me - a baby loss, domestic violence, severe health issues that still affect me now on a daily basis, having a child with quite moderate autism and needing a lot of support and doing it all on my own because dad isn’t allowed contact because of the abuse.

My mum has always had the opinion “well I struggled, raised kids on my own, had health issues, so my kids have to struggle the same if not more”. I have had a lot of health things going on since January this year, along with my daughter having a really hard time, and I’m nearly at breaking point. My mum - despite living 10 minutes away - hasn’t offered to help us at all, not once in that whole entire time. I rarely ask because even if my mum does agree, she makes it very clear it’s a burden to her and I never want my daughter to pick up on that (oh nanny is just looking after me because she feels she has to, not because she wants to).

I understand that it’s not a grandparents duty to help out with their grandchildren, but as time goes on, I’m just really struggling to understand my mum’s mentality of watching your children struggle and be okay with that because you have your “own life to live”. She never has any sympathy for anything her own family are going through, but if her friends were experiencing the same, she would drop everything to help them in a heartbeat.

I think all of it combined - childhood things that are coming up in therapy, her attitude now in terms of helping out - is just building up so much to the point where I resent her. There is no point talking to her because she automatically starts crying, puts on the you’re calling me a bad mum act and then tells everyone how awful you are.

I really am considering pretty much not having a relationship with her - letting her still see my daughter when it suits us, not her - but other than that, not having much to do with her.

AIBU?

Not just a job. Her mum has a job looking after autistic children.

You ever think maybe the mum is just downright fed up ? We don't know if the OP has constantly needed help from the day she became an adult, we don't know if there has been a time the mum needed help and the OP could have helped but opted not too. Maybe the mum is just burnt out.

But it’s your mums job right…I don’t know, you don’t work, your child is at school, yet you want help from your 50 year old mother who actually works lol…you’re funny

Sure.

She also has a daughter and grandchild who are struggling.

I've worked with autistic children too. I managed to do it whilst caring for my dying mum. I managed to do it and pick up the phone to offer a sympathetic ear to a loved one when they needed it.

I genuinely don't know many families that don't offer ANY emotional or practical support to their adult children, grandchildren and even extended family. Those that I do know/ know of, relationships are strained and they're very much spoken of as being unusual/ unsympathetic.

Nobody can force the OP's mum to be more caring or sympathetic. I'm not saying she's the devil incarnate and that the OP should go no contact for ever. But we know the OP's struggles, she's the person asking for help on this thread - not the mother. It's ok to give support and respond based on what the OP is actually telling us/ asking us. We don't always have to place the OP in the wrong and imagine they're making it up or they actually want something they've never said they wanted (their sainted, fatigued mother to raise their children for them in this case). We don't have to invent an alternate narrative around a poor, elderly 50 something year old who is crawling to the end of every day with sheer exhaustion and so doesn't have the capacity to offer her daughter a couple of hours break twice a month, or even a cup of tea and listening ear occasionally. But somehow this is how every AIBU goes - with an assumption of bad faith on the part of the OP, and a weird determination to excuse the other party, with the extra mumsnet truism thrown in that to need, expect or want something from another person (least of all your mother) is the height of entitlement and you're automatically being highly unreasonable.

No. I tend to reply to the facts of an OP, and to what an OP who has openly said they're struggling is telling us. Rather than rushing to give sympathy, excuses and grace to the other party who isn't the one posting and asking for my support or help. And instead of assuming that the OP is asking for more/ different from the other party so that when she says she'd like occasional help once or twice a month and a sympathetic ear, she actually means she wants someone else to raise her kids.

I think it's kinder.

I realise it makes me an oddity on AIBU where the aim seems to be 'find the loophole that makes the OP the unreasonable one, and wildly entitled to boot, and if there's not one there then make it up'.

There's certainly threads where it's obvious we're not getting the full story, or getting a twisted/ manipulative version of it - but this doesn't feel like that to me so I'll reply accordingly and in good faith. If the OP is twisting it all and really her mum is just a poor beleaguered saint then more fool her, this thread isn't going to help anything is it? If she actually is a chronically ill single mother who has been the victim of DV and has an emotionally cold and unsupportive mother then I'm glad that I've offered some support.

Indeed. There was one woman on one of those ‘how long shall I exclude family from seeing my new born’ threads talking about how she’ll let her mum see the baby because her mum will cook all the meals, do all the laundry, change all the nappies and clean the house from top to bottom. Like people don’t view their parents as family members anymore but as slaves who should willingly be grateful to doormat themselves for the sake of their children- for life. And someone upthread called the mother ‘selfish’ for not choosing to do so!!!

I don't think I could look after autistic kids and provide much support to anyone, tbh.
I might provide monetary support.

There it is again.

Please point out where in the thread the OP has said she wants her mum to 'willingly be grateful to doormat themselves for the sake of their children- for life.'

Things the OP has actually asked for/ or been upset her mum is unable to provide:

• tell her she loved her or hug her as a child
• offer to help even once whilst the OP - a single mother escaping DV - recovers from health issues
• show some sympathy for what her daughter is experiencing
• help maybe twice a month at most

It's wild how people read that and equate it to 'you just want her to martyr herself, do all the grunt work and raise your children for you. If any of the above list are too much for you to offer your loved ones, or seem akin to sacrificing your whole life as a drudge, then that's probably a you problem.

What do you think it’s reasonable for OP to expect her mother to do?

It's a really bloody hard job, and I don't do it anymore.

But it's a job. One you have training for, one you are paid for, and it's not 24/7.

People do it and then go home and raise their own children, with demands far greater than what the OP is asking for.

It really doesn't preclude a phonecall at the weekend to ask your daughter how she's doing, a hug or god forbid the occasional bit of babysitting.

I think it's reasonable to expect parents to tell their children they love them and to give physical affection. I think it's reasonable to be an adult looking back and realising you never had that, and to be impacted by that and feel sad about it.

I think it's reasonable to expect your mother to show you support and sympathy when you're coming out of a domestic violence relationship. I think it's reasonable to expect your mother to show you support and sympathy when you're dealing with multiple health issues. I think it's reasonable to expect your mother to show you support and sympathy when you have a child with additional needs.

What have I done for family members in these sorts of situations? - Offered a roof, offered money, accompanied them to appointments to provide support/ help process and remember the in formation, endless hours of babysitting, researching and forwarding resources and sources of support, cooked meals, cleaned houses, wiped arses and more. Literally dropped everything to be there in extreme cases. What have those family members done for me when I've needed it? - pretty much the same, or comparable at least. I don't know what's reasonable or practical in their particular family - but I'm pretty much sure that more than nothing would be possible if the will was there.

This may be unpopular, but I'm in my 50s, having been a parent to 3 children (autistic included) which has spanned over 30 years and my youngest is just now 18. I'm going to live my life now, free of other people's demands, free of the house management and life admin for every other fucking person in my house for decades. I'm making plans to spend my money and time on me and do the things I can do before I cark it.

Nobody said being a mother was easy, it's bloody hard, for everyone, but its unfair of you to consider cutting your mum out of your life because she now wants to live hers without focusing on the demands and needs of others. You yourself said she housed you, clothed you, fed you, gave you gifts. How do you think she would feel knowing you're actually considering excluding her from your life and the life of your children because she is no longer giving you what you need?

If you need support go and find it in appropriate areas but please do not punish your mother because you've decided, with hindsight, that she was a crap mum and no longer deserves to be in your life.

Remember, your child may judge you in the same way 20 years down the road.

I think that's a bit much. Just because it may have been harder for parents to be emotionally supportive in the past doesn't mean it's not desirable.

Re the 'I love yous' and hugs. My mother's family weren't very huggy and rarely said that when she was a child. They were definitely loving though and she felt loved.

I agree on the rest though

I grew up with cold parents. They were actually much, much better as grandparents for a while but then they did something, child abuse related, that meant I had to cut them off for mine and my children’s well-being.

It has and will forever disappoint me that they did that but honestly it shouldn’t have surprised me because it fit with who I knew them to be. You know who your mother is, her behaviour is totally consistent.

I remember years ago watching a long running TV show about the chaotic life of a completely dysfunctional family, the parents basically emotionally and physically abandoned the kids as they were addicts, finally a light bulb went off that some people just are not remotely equipped to be parents.

That programme really helped me to understand that many times it is not about the children it is about what the parents are lacking. People who cannot emotionally connect with their own children on any level are raising children in neglect. Many on MN would not have been raised in that level of dysfunction and of course it is incredibly hard for them to relate but for those who have experience of it and have processed that experience, they get it.

We have a different view of selfishness. I think it would be pretty selfish of me at 40+ to still expect my mother to drop everything to help me out. She's done her job of bringing me up. She gave up everything for me when I needed it the most - in my childhood - and that's quite enough. If she wants to help out off her own volition, she is more than welcome. But I have zero expectations because the most selfless thing I can do as a daughter is to accept her the way she is and make sure she can spend the rest of her life living for herself without worrying about me.

No its not but she would be solely responsible for your asd dd which after having spent a day in a special school supporting other asd children it may well be too much for her.
Look i get that its hard being a single parent of a child with asd (in my case ds has several other disabilities and his dad is dead) with no support, but I also recognise that asd runs in families and not everyone has the mental energy to handle a class of asd children all day 5 days a week and then spend their down time looking after another asd child even if that child is their grandchild.

I think it would be pretty selfish of me at 40+ to still expect my mother to drop everything to help me out.

I’m clearly way too invested in this thread and need to give my head a wobble and log off for the day, but again - who is asking the mum to ‘drop everything’? Nobody.

And your mum didn’t give up everything for you when you were a child, she chose to have a child and it was her responsibility to raise you. Parents still have lives.

There’s just always so much horror and hyperbole around the idea that anyone’s parent might help them out at all ever. Giving up everything, dropping everything, raising your children for you, she must be so tired, doing two lots of parenting, being asked to do the drudge work, she’s IN HER 50s, she should be ‘living for herself’ etc etc.

My sister has grown children and grandchildren, she does a lot of babysitting and helping out - her choice. I don’t think she considers herself to have given up her life to do so. She has a great life. My in laws don’t do much in the way of childcare/ babysitting for us but they will absolutely help for things like medical appointments or emergencies, we try not to ask too much of them as they are older but they will help their son and grandchild if and when they can - and I don’t think they would consider that to be giving up their life. The OP has mentioned maybe twice a month - how is that giving up her life? It’s one adult who is supposed to love another adult helping them out occasionally. If ‘living for yourself’ really can’t accommodate offering a little support to your closest family then it’s pretty hollow in my opinion, and I doubt you were ever that selfless to begin with.

People like to frame it as ‘I’ve spent my life doing stuff for other people now I’m living for myself’ - but the people who do the most for others (and I’m not one of them) tend to keep doing so I’ve always found.

I think you're being really unreasonable tbh.

You don't work, your mum does. You want her to fit in parenting your school age child (you get a break 5 hours a day btw, which equals to 25 hours a week?) alongside that? What break does she get exactly?

You talk a lot about yourself and feelings, but don't seem to have any empathy for your mother. How was she raised? What if the kind gifts were her way of saying I love you? Has she ever explicitly said she wants you to struggle, or is that you projecting? It's easy to blame our mum's for stuff going on in our lives, like a teenage reflex.

Wrong poet

It’s probably in a school where they finish at 3.30. I’ve worked with children with autism both in main stream and in a provision unit and yes it is tiring but no more than any other job.

I’m sure that OPs mum could be there for her if she wanted to be.

I’m reaching the end of a very similar situation myself. My mother, who was neglectful , is now nearing the end of her life. We’ve only recently learned that she is autistic, which explains some of her behaviour. The autism link in our family only became clear after my son and daughter were diagnosed. I have AuDHD myself and have vowed to never treat my children in the same way. It's difficult when you are coping with anxiety and overwhelm most of the time

Agree with @OCDmama Its a shame you do not think your mum is good enough but i think she must be very tired after working full time. Your mum probably did her best and it’s a shame you don’t feel that’s ever bee enough for you. How many evenings after work or weekends are you expecting your mum to watch your children?

Hi op i have a similar mum to you, mine is now near to end of life. It's bloody sad especially as we know we are already giving to our kids in a completely different way, I think having kids really does magnify this sort of dynamic with our parents. My take on it is that we can't change who they are but we can change how we deal with it. I have lowered my expectations of my mum below zero so when I do see her (lc because that is how she has always wanted it) it doesn't matter what vile nasty things she wants to sling at me and it has helped me accept i didn't get a mum who cared beyond the very basics. So basically I have written off the relationship and I have grieved for a good while the relationship i would have liked. A therapist once said I should imagine the sort of mum I would have liked to have. Sometimes, when I have a rare moment wirh nothing urgent to do, I shut my eyes and meditate and imagine going to my imaginary mum's house for a coffee and a hug and a laugh and for a while it is a big comfort! Sending solidarity it's really tough xx

I cant get over the flaming the OP is getting here . The assumptions people are jumping to are crackers ! I’m the mother of an Autistic child and have another child with a serious congenital condition. I have no external family support whatsoever but I have a good husband so I am lucky . My closest family mother etc are all dead.

all the OP wants is acknowledgment her situation is hard and that she’s going a good Job (she got her kids away from an abuser she’s phenomenal !)

she needs a break once in a blue moon to get to an appointment; (not much to ask ) or god forbid grab a coffee or a glass of wine .

she needs her Mother to cop the fuck on , and give credit where it’s due , give your daughter a hug , tell her she’s a good Mum and just listen to her , even if it’s just to let her howl at the moon. ..OP I think you are fabulous , your Mother on the other hand should never have had children that’s the politest thing I can say about her .