As an autistic person AIBU

[estrogone]

To be sick to death of people blaming all bad behaviour on neurodiversity.

It seems like the go to excuse.

Little Johnny urinated on somebody- must be ND
CF stole my shit and is rude and unpleasant - must be ND.

I wish people knew that autistic adults (especially women) are highly sensitive to fairness. We have strong inner policeman and will make sure we play fair. We spent decades masking and sticking to the rules, so we would be the least likely to be a cheeky fucker.

Some people are just rude, insensitive, aggressive, entitled, horrid. As children this might be down to genetics, family dynamics, as adults because they just are not very nice.

People means others. You means you

This is a genuine question as I have absolutely no experience of PDA. How is someone meant to live as an adult if they can't hear the word no? Will they always need a carer of some sort?

I have autism, bpd and bipolar I have 2 children with autism. I have multiple friends with autism. None of them think hitting, swearing at parents, damaging property is acceptable. They all had boundaries and consequences. The only autistic people I know who act violently and aggressively are the ones where the parents have gone down the they don't understand/listen or can't help it route. The fact you don't think these type of parents exist just shows you don't get out much.

You are SO right about that inner policeman!!!

"So if a 4 year old is constantly hitting other children how do you find out the cause and how do you solve it?"

You look at where it is happening, when it is happening, environmental triggers, what they are doing before, during and after the hitting incidents, what those around them are doing before, during and after each incident. Are they trying to communicate something? Are they in pain? Are they doing it to get attention for some reason? Are they doing it to get a reaction? What is the child's body language showing?

Obviously you need to keep other children safe which may mean very close supervision and removing quickly if needed. It may mean that some social situations aren't suitable. It may mean that a child can only tolerate short periods of social situations because they become overwhelmed.

You had me until saying autistic adults (especially women) are the least likely to be a cheeky fucker.

A large component of autism is social struggles from early childhood and it usually consists of others thinking you have said or done something rude when you either vehemently disagree or are oblivious to it because you have a disorder, a disability that prevents you from learning and copying all the social cues perfectly.

This leads to cheeky fucker behaviour like publicly telling a teacher when they’ve got the wrong answer in maths class or correcting an English teacher’s grammar, like giving an honest opinion as a 6yr old out shopping that a new top their mum wants to buy them is hideous and you’d rather wear a bin bag, or getting so overly, raging upset when your brother finishes your jigsaw puzzle because you wanted to finish it that you toss the whole thing out the window.

Yes, too often bad behaviour is blamed on neurodiversity but on the other hand, it is just plain false that neurodiverse children are the least likely to display behavioural issues, especially in what we would call cheek in child to adult interactions.

Removing them from the situation is a consequence. You said consequences were pointless.

Also most children do learn self regulation to some extent as they get older and with the right support. They learn to remove themselves from certain situations if given the opportunity and support to. My profoundly autistic son was a hitter at primary age but as an adult he will do all he can to leave a situation rather than hit anyone.

Despite all of this I am a 'good girl' - I will follow the rules to the letter.
Sometimes arseholery is the obvious diagnosis not autism or adhd.

Sometimes being a stickler for the rules makes you the asshole. Like refusing to participate in white lies and be 100% honest all the time. Or never making an exception, causing undue distress on others- e.g sorry Tina, going to have to do a disciplinary review because you’ve had far too many sick days according to company rules. I know it’s not your fault you are the 1% to end up in hospital with West Nile virus, but really mosquito repellent is your friend here. If I make an exception for you, then everyone else will think the rules don’t apply to them.

Must be nice to be high functioning enough to punch down

Yeah .my son will take himself off when things get too much noise wise
Ironically for somone who doesnt like loud noise, he can be extremely loud himself.

Wow. This is an extraordinary take from someone with so many neurotypes and conditions. I’m astonished you would be so lacking in understanding about different presentations of ND - especially PDA. Who said any of it is acceptable? The idea that you can assume that all ND children have the function to be able to control what is essentially a nervous system disability is astonishing. I’m rarely so lost for words.

"Removing them from the situation is a consequence. You said consequences were pointless."

It's to keep others safe but it's not punitive. The child isn't coping where they are so they moving somewhere where they will feel calmer. You are teaching them that that is what they need to do.

If you had a child with the type of needs I am talking about you would understand.

Who says no to adults?

By the time a PDA profile child reaches adulthood it would be hopeful that they’d received care and treatment that would enable them to manage their difficulties.

Just barking no and do as I say is not that.

I assume part of that is he has more autonomy as an adult. I think children can be expected to take part in things that aren't appropriate for them.

But my son doesnt understand how his actions impact others.
Its not an excuse it just is ,hes cognitively around 2 or 3 despite being 16 in a few months .

With respect - there is an enormous amount of information out there if you choose to look. Demands will always trigger a fight/flight/freeze response. One of mine goes to freeze and looks like the most compliant person you’ve ever met - but years of masking have lead to a complete executive function collapse this year and it is not pretty.

one of mine goes into fight. Not pretty either but it is totally beyond his control in the moment. With intensive NVR and parenting strategies - as well as maturity and meds he is managing it so much better. He is a lovely kid. But I am lucky to have had all the resources to throw at trying to manage this - stable supportive partner, economic privilege, articulate and educated so can advocate for my kids. Imagine those who don’t or can’t and are probably ND themselves. Is shaming them for their parenting helpful in any way?

I can tell you one thing - no did not work for my child. His neurotype means that punishments and rewards are perceived by his nervous system as threats and bribes - we have had to find different ways around it. He is off to university and has held down several jobs where his bosses love him so we must be doing something right. I can tell you, it didn’t involve what many on here think is perfect parenting from their inexperienced perspectives.

"I assume part of that is he has more autonomy as an adult. I think children can be expected to take part in things that aren't appropriate for them."

It's much easier now he is out of school and not being expected to cope with situations he cannot cope with.

I think some people genuinely read it as a description of autistic behaviour.
Too often there is a massive drip feed or not enough context and so posters will first see the pattern they are most attuned to.

Yes my PDA profile dd is beloved by everybody who has worked with her at school and in services. She too had made amazing progress and has learnt how to regulate and pace herself. I have another child who hasn’t had half she has had and is still in the process of learning. Their sibling doesn’t have that profile at all. It’s not down to parenting as whether you have a PDA profile child I can assure you. All of my children (girls and boys) have autism and present very differently. I am probably a more authoritarian type parent but quickly learnt it doesn’t help and has disastrous results with a PDA profile child.

But surely you understand in some cases its parenting and people are not talking about severely disabled children. Most autistic children aren't cognitively 2. Alot are in mainstream school will go on to live independently these are the children that are being failed when parents allow certain behaviours without boundaries and consequences. There is also a significant amount of terrible parenting in NT children but over the last few years every negative behavior is blamed on ND and its unfair as I know loads of amazing autistic people (Think the Sheldon Cooper type).

But whatever the reason behind removing the child surely plenty of children will view it as a punishment or just a bad thing mum or dad is doing to them? I don’t know many 4 years olds who will say ahh I fully understand you are just removing me so I feel better later. They still see it as mum is taking me away from the fun place.

You said consequences are pointless and is lazy parenting. But a consequence can be good as well as bad. You seem to only think what you deem to be bad consequences are pointless then? Whether you want to look at it from a “bad” thing (you are being removed because you hit another child and hurt them) or a “good” thing (removing you will help you feel better), the child is still learning something. Why are they only able to learn one of those versions? Why is the first version lazy but the second isn’t? It seems to come back to people not wanting to ever punish or discipline etc as it’s deemed bad. Or pointless and lazy as you say. But why is it so awful to learn that undesirable behaviour might have undesirable consequences for you? Its life! It’s not a bad thing to learn that not everything is about you. Why should a child only learn that leaving a situation where they are stressed makes THEM feel better. Rather than having to leave a situation because they are making others feel bad.

"Autism spectrum now so inclusive it is meaningless"
Expert Dame Uta Frith warns term has become so accommodating it is ‘close to collapse’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/4cd7dd7d422314ee

Erm women say no to men all the time. People need to learn no means no. Do you honestly think this diagnosis would hold up in court.

I’d hope men and definitely my sons wouldn’t be engaging in behaviour that warranted no.