As an autistic person AIBU

[estrogone]

To be sick to death of people blaming all bad behaviour on neurodiversity.

It seems like the go to excuse.

Little Johnny urinated on somebody- must be ND
CF stole my shit and is rude and unpleasant - must be ND.

I wish people knew that autistic adults (especially women) are highly sensitive to fairness. We have strong inner policeman and will make sure we play fair. We spent decades masking and sticking to the rules, so we would be the least likely to be a cheeky fucker.

Some people are just rude, insensitive, aggressive, entitled, horrid. As children this might be down to genetics, family dynamics, as adults because they just are not very nice.

I completely agree with you. It’s really upsetting. I follow rules too and hate when others dont. I say “if I can do it and I’m AuDHD, they can do it because they’re not.” But that’s that black and white thinking. I really believe that if I can learn and mask and “be like everyone else” then why are NT people so rude all the time? Why have they not learned? Oh they have, they just don’t care. I’d love to not care.

This thread is going the same way as a lot a MN threads.

I was making a point that too many threads jump straight to autistic rather than poorly behaved. I was not generalising, rather making a specific point in the context of MY lived experience.

This post does not apply to non verbal autistic children who may melt down- which I also do not consider to be bad behaviour. That is completely not relevant in this instance.

So a verbal autistic person can’t meltdown? I can assure you I can and do. Not as often as I used to, but I still do, occasionally.

You don’t get to speak for my verbal ND children either.

Oh dear - I've done exactly that on another thread today! Am awaiting assessment for AuDHD. I do try not to be that poster, and I always write why I think it could be ND.

@estrogone you are projecting your version of ASD here. It presents in many varied ways and many people have very different experiences to yours and suggest ASD on threads on that basis.

This comes up on almost every thread where ND gets mentioned and this conflict is a very real tension. ND is not just one thing. Everyone has their own experiences.

I’m likely ND, my husband is, we have 2 ND kids and another one with at least traits, through both my and DHs work we work with lots of people who are ND, it is extensive in our extended families.

There are unfortunately aspects of ND that can give rise to very anti social behaviour even extreme anti social behaviour. Empathy is patchy with ASD, some have it up an extreme some completely lack it to an extreme. Compulsive behaviour, sensory stimulating behaviour all have the potential to become antisocial.

When someone suggests ND on a thread it is not about your version of ASD or about you. The amount of incredible autistic people I know is huge but autism is a challenging condition for many people and not just the people with the condition, it is challenging for those around them too. It is obviously very hurtful if you start feeling that fingers are being pointed at you if people talk about their own personal bad experiences with ASD but it is up to individuals not to project themselves and the version of the condition they have into others experiences that simply don’t apply to them.

I agree, and I pointed this out on the CF hiker thread which is (I think) what may have prompted this?

So if you never “punish” a child who is showing a “bad” behaviour due to say impulse control issues, how do they learn not to do it? I’m honestly curious. Let’s say a child keeps grabbing and breaking other children’s toys or hitting other children. If you just nicely take them to the side each time and say you shouldn’t do that it’s not nice and then let them carry on what is the motivation for them not to do it again? You say children need to be allowed to make mistakes and grow and learn. But how do you learn from mistakes if there’s nothing to learn from? There needs to be a point when a behaviour seriously becomes unacceptable and there is an actual consequence for it whether they child could help it or not. Otherwise as someone else pointed out, you don’t suddenly become 18 and realise how to act like an adult.

Also if a child is constantly displaying bad behaviour, no amount of telling other children to be “kind” and “include” them will work once they reach a certain age beyond parental influence. If you always just let a young child learn from their own mistakes all the time and never try and actually teach them correct behaviour, other children will just avoid them. I don’t think any child should be forced to hang around with a child who might hurt them or break their stuff purely in order to “be kind” so that that child can “learn” where they are going wrong. If you really want to go down that route it’s fine. But the lesson they will learn is that no one wants to be friends with them and they will be very lonely.

OK. Aren't most posts based on the OPs experience?

I am not projecting though. I have played 'Autism' bingo today. 4/6 threads - where Autism was suggested based on nothing but poor behaviour. It pisses me off that this is the go to. Of those 4 I would say only 1 might be undiagnosed ND. That is not projection, it is what it is.

You dont get to muscle in on my thread and tell me what I can and can't say.

I have no idea why I have irked you so, I am actually advocating for those of us who have autism.

What are you on about? I am saying the complete opposite and I am challenging ableist behaviour. Why are you deliberately misunderstanding my point?

always jumping to the parenting. It would be lovely if people could not comment with such emphaticness unless they have lived experience.

I am 47. I have 2 ND and 2 NT children. I am well educated (3 degrees including secondary teaching and psychology) my children grew up with boundaries and routines. I have one ND child with an internalised expression - quiet, compliant, heavily masking. Currently going through autistic burnout and his life has imploded.

my other son has an externalised expression - has been disruptive, aggressive, angry, borderline antisocial.

both have PDA profiles - just different expressions of them. Both suffer extreme anxiety. There is no point in educating those who refuse to listen but seriously - never in a million years did I think this would be my life. I now work with dozens of families who have experienced the same shame, judgement and parental erasure. It fucking sucks and yes - it makes me absolutely furious that people pontificate about this shit when they are only applying the narrowest lens of their own experience.

And yes, op - you don’t get to speak for any of my children or my parenting just because you are autistic.

Kindly, that poster is not attacking you, but pointing out her lived experience which is just as valid as yours, regardless of thread 'ownership'.

As an Audhd person myself, you may just need to take a breath here.

Only the ones who fit your narrow behavioural profile that applies to a specific set of neurodivergent people. That’s ableist I’m afraid.

Yes of course they can and do. I regularly have meltdowns. That was not my point though.

I am saying that poor behaviour is NOT a reason to automatically assume autism, that doing so is ableist.

I am NOT commenting on Autistic behaviour. I am making an entirely different point which you may have misunderstood.

You are actually being able-ist by completely disregarding my disability. I was making a specific point about a specific issue. It is possible to have an opinion on something that may have a variety of perspectives.

You can just scroll on instead of bullying your way to make a non point. Thanks for making me feel like shit. As the parent of an autistic child I would think you may treat an autistic person with a bit more sensitivity.

I very much agree. When I mentioned my daughter has PDA on a recent thread, people were replying as though she must therefore behave like a wild animal. Whereas people think she’s a lovely child and that’s because I’ve raised her to understand that it’s never ok to hurt people. There are some ND people who cannot control their aggression through no fault of their own but that’s different. The majority can be taught empathy and kindness.

And yes some kids are just not very nice people. Like the 7 year old in my daughters class who pinches others for no reason.

And if by some magic the other 4 posters or their parents went away and got a diagnosis and it was 5 from 5 on those threads would you then accept people suggesting ND.

When people suggest ND it is usually because they have seen similar situations and ND has been an aspect, ND does very often lead to unusual, not following typical social rules type behaviour etc so yes it is linked with socially unacceptable behaviour a lot. I think you are finding it hard to accept that.

Quite.

I am saying that poor behaviour is NOT a reason to automatically assume autism, that doing so is ableist.

I tend to see MNetters asking "Could they be autistic?"

Rather than assuming anything.

And yes you're right, it is said a lot but often only if they're trying to understand why someone's behaviour is the way it is.

Well I think that is a you problem then.

Maybe the OP is unable to see things from other people’s point of view due to her own disability. Maybe you are being ableist by suggesting she’s ableist.

@estrogone sorry I don’t mean to actually imply what it sounds like I’m implying. Just pointing out a contradiction I see here a lot.

This thread is a microcosm of living with Autism and Adhd. So much misunderstanding.

Thankfully most people are reasonable and kind and understood that I was making a specific point. Which means I can go to bed tonight only feeling a little like crap because social anxiety is through the roof. I cant even get it right on an anonymous forum. It sucks.

I was agreeing with you.

Weeps (literally) with frustration at not being understood.