To think the Green Party and esp its Deputy Leader is a real worry for women

[CraftyTaupeBee]

Over the last few months I have watched with incredulity the rise of the Green Party in the polls and wondered if I am alone in this. Mothin Ali their Deputy publicly celebrated Oct 7th (which he then apologised for) and has been seen this week at an event mourning the death of the Ayatollah. I am not anti any religion but his wife is fully covered in a niqab and I feel despite what others say to have a woman's face fully covered is a tool of oppression and not something I would want in a leader as a value set. I realise others may not feel this way and it is not meant to be offensive but the facts are there.And recently a female spin doctor for the Greens alleged that rape had not taken place on Oct 7th. To me the Green Party is reminiscent of what happened in 1979 and something that ultimately affected women's rights drastically (as well as any other rights of the gay community and others). The soft left (much like the Greens) allowed the strict islamic vote to take hold and look where they ended up. This really worries me for the country. Am I the only one? And why does the Green Party seem to be so anti west and anti white. I realise Zack Polanksi is gay and jewish and they are strange bedfellows but it feels like a trojan horse mindset and not something I want for my western liberal feminist girls. In fact it feels anti feminist?

Bury South? Earlier you made the claim that the constituency had never voted Conservative.

The constituency was created in 1983 from parts of other constituencies and the first MP in 1983 (and up until 1997) was Conservative.

Between 1997 and 2019, Bury South was Labour.

In 2019 the sitting Labour MP, Ivan Lewis, did not contest the election and did indeed recommend that people vote Conservative.

However, if you have a look at the results that didn't really have any effect.

In the 2017 election the losing Conservative candidate got 41.6% of the votes in Bury South. In 2019, the successful Conservative candidate got 43.8% of the votes.

That is hardly evidence of a mass swing of "the Jewish community". What did happen in Bury South, along with the 54 other constituencies that Labour lost, was that there were new parties coming along taking their vote. For example, in Bury South, the Lib Dems, the Greens, even the Brexit party all saw an increased share of the vote at the expense of Labour.

You can also look at the neighbouring constituencies Bury North, Bolton North East and Heywood & Middleton where very much the same thing happened in each case. The Conservative vote stayed about the same but the Labour vote fell a lot.

In the case of Bury South, there is a sizeable Jewish population (the 2021 Census says 16%) but that doesn't apply to those other constituencies I mentioned like Bury North which is 13% Muslim and 0.6% Jewish. Bolton North East is 18% Muslim and 0.1% Jewish. Heywood & Middleton is 11% Muslim and 0.1% Jewish.

All of these adjacent constituencies in and around Bury and Bolton all flipped from Labour to Conservative in 2019. In all of these seats the Conservative vote only increased a little but it was other parties like the Lib Dems, the Greens and the Brexit party that also had increases at the expense of the Labour party.

I think that blaming the 2019 result in Bury South on "the Jewish community" is slightly misunderstanding what was happening back then.

The Greens have won one seat, in a left leaning constituency, when labour are very unpopular. Yet we have an Islamic insurgence apparently. Reform are using this to platform the idea that certain people shouldn't be able to vote. It's pure racism.

You are so so close to getting the point.

Slightly misunderstanding? PP wanted to imply there was a Jewish conspiracy. Thank you for pointing out the facts to her.

What point, exactly?

How were they courted? Isn't that what people have an issue with? Were the leaflets in Hebrew with photos of the Labour leader shaking hands with foreign leaders hostile to Israel?

I get why people don't like Reform. I don't plan to vote for them but I do see issues with this particular campaign.

People don't like campaign material in other languages as it suggests the society isn't cohesive that people come here and don't learn English. It's especially an issue if you're voting as you should be integrated.

The Modi and Starmer photo in the campaign material is bad in my opinion and can cause tensions in the community. It was obviously chosen for a reason to appeal to one side in a heated issue.

I really have no idea of what sort of point you're trying to make here.

Are you perhaps trying to suggest that Bury South turned Conservative because of the anti-semitic views of Jeremy Corbyn?

Well, there was a survey in 2015 by the polling company 'Survation' that established that in the 2015 election, 64% of Jews voted Conservative compared with just 15% who voted for Labour, led at that time by Ed Miliband, a Jew and the son of a Marxist academic.

So, the shift away from Labour by Jews had already happened before Jeremy Corbyn.

But Bury South had been Labour since 1997 and remained Labour in both the 2015 and 2017 elections. In 2015 (under Ed Miliband), Labour got 45.1% of the vote and in 2017 (under Jeremy Corbyn) this increased to 53.3% of the vote.

If "the Jewish community" was affected by Jeremy Corbyn then it was clearly a very small effect given how many more votes Labour got in 2017 under his leadership.

No, people from ‘all walks of life’ do not just walk into a riot and steal large household items.

People comfortable with violence and with a propensity to steal walk into a riot and steal large household items.

The men I know, including my son and cousins wouldn’t dream of doing that.

If you are so sanguine about the idea of someone doing and horrified at him being punished that it might be time to look at your values.

This is said frequently by people arguing against women’s rights.

I’m sorry that you have suffered but how do you know how those men identified? Men who identify as women don’t always wear women’s clothes at all times. Or announce themselves.

If they really just wanted to get on and live their lives in peace, we wouldn’t have violent protestors at every event to speak about women’s rights or have lost the right to request same sex care across the NHS fir example.

1. who has mentioned ‘insurgence’?
2. No, Reform are not using this to suggest that Muslims shouldn’t vote
3. What are you saying is ‘pure racism’?
4. You should try listening to what certain influential Muslims/Islamic groups are saying. It’s not just ‘one left leaning constituency, there are already at least 4 MPs on an openly Islamist platform, many local and city councillors and they are targeting the seats of Jess Phillips, Shabana Mahmood, Wes Streeting and many more at the next election.

It would be pure arrogance to ignore them.

I agree.

People with a functioning moral compass do not help themselves to flatscreens, even if the opportunity presents itself.

Non-violent people get away from violent situations, they don't dive right in so they can take things.

YANBU; the Greens are absolutely dreadful.

Yes, and Labour are bringing in the anti-Muslum-hatred Tsar to try and bring Muslim voters back to Labour. This will stifle dissent and privilege one group above all others. A really bad move.

Like I said, you only prioritise race if the person agrees with you. If they don't, you assume you are right, and superior, and they are wrong, and stupid (and apparently self hating and a danger to their children). There has always been a sizeable chunk of the left who assume that people of colour should be grateful to them and agree with them and are astonished and aggrieved if POC have different ideas - basically, POC should know their place and do as the superior people think they should. It's racist.

You have decided Greens and Labour are the least racist parties because that's what you want to think, there's no fact it's just based on emotion. Same as people who prioritise transpeople over women, it's not about facts it's about feelings. You can't provide receipts for either one.

I will never forget this, when their manifesto pledged to reduce the number of C sections. As if all the avoidable mother and baby deaths aren’t bad enough as it is: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/07/women-birth-green-party-natural-c-sections-too-posh-to-push

At both the far left and far right of politics there’s an obsession with limiting women’s autonomy over their bodies

A black women who seems to have a HUGE insecurity about being black. Most people don’t define their or anyone else’s whole personality by the colour of their skin. Try it.

I think they’ve rolled back on this. Even they finally realised how stupid this was as an idea.

@Firry they rolled it back, but even the fact this made it into the manifesto in the first place really worried me

They’re not very bright at all and regard women the way many regard dog dirt on their shoes. It didn’t surprise me at all.

Exactly. If we don’t HAVE to keep criminals in the UK why on earth would we?

If you read the news yesterday you will have heard the interview with him from years ago where he openly agreed he did this and said he believed it worked. He lied about that in his leadership campaign and has lied about it ever since. He’s got no integrity whatsoever and will say whatever he thinks people want to hear. He was on the right wing of the Lib Dem’s during the coalition and austerity…! He’s open about being Jewish when it benefits him, not when it doesn’t.

I’m a Jewish woman and it’s very clear to me that the Green Party does not want my vote or my membership fee and that people like me aren’t welcome. I had been a member of the Green Party for over 20 years until him.

100% agree with you. He’s a liar with no integrity whatsoever and will say whatever he thinks people want to hear. I had been a member of the party for 20 years until he came along, but while he is still around they won’t be getting my membership fee or my vote.

I’m really sorry to hear that, it must hurt very much. I have family members and friends who used to vote Green too. I would be voting for them as well now, because of my unhappiness with Labour if it wasn’t for him.

The majority of the country are just fed up with this obsession over not offending Muslims. If you’re in Britain just live according to the British rules and according to British culture. Then there’s no issue. Stop thinking Muslims should get special treatment because they follow some rules designed to facilitate an expansionist campaign 1500 years ago in the Middle East to get trade access to the Mediterranean. If you bizarrely want to follow those rules in 21st century Britain that’s up to you.

But how have we allowed this need to capture the votes of a religious group to become central to the ideology of political parties. It needs to stop, is feeding into the idea Muslims are a special group that deserve special treatment, rather than yet another group following a religion made up by made for war and conquest!

The part I quoted in bold was inaccurate according to BBC verify

• that he did not publicly celebrate the Oct 7th attack, and
• that he did not attend any event mourning the death of Ayatollah Khomeni

The BBC has had several criminals amongst its ranks. That’s nothing new and doesn’t mean the entire BBC as an organisation is suspect.