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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NAMALT. Really? Dig deep and be honest with yourself. AMALT

571 replies

NoEggs · 04/03/2026 21:47

I love my DH. He’s a great guy and we’ve been happy for many years.

But
He’s not perfect. Doesn’t do the laundry. Defaults to letting me make stuff happen etc. etc.

Now even if your partner is a paragon I would argue that the species ‘men’ will generally default to slightly bloody useless.

AIBU?

OP posts:
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12
Carla786 · 14/03/2026 20:40

GaIadriel · 14/03/2026 11:55

The issue is that there's a subset of 'feminists' for whom the driving force seems to be using feminism as a vehicle to bash men rather than actually improve things for women - that vehicle would be called The Mystery Misandry Bus. 🤣

I'm reminded of the phenomenon whereby the suicide rate in Ireland apparently went up after the troubles subsided. It's been suggested that it's because some men no longer had anything to fight for. I think for some feminists it's a similar situation.

In reality some of them are probably just lonely/a bit disenfranchised with life. A bit like all the angry jobless men who blame the 'forriners' for taking all the jobs despite not seemingly trying too hard to find gainful employment themselves. Of course they'll never admit this might be the case.

Interesting re the Troubles but it was probably more complex than that. For one thing, a lot of men would have had trauma from the conflict : I guess once it was no longer going on, they wouldn't have been in aggression mode so much & this would have maybe made them confront mental health issues they didn't have the tools to deal with
I have read elsewhere (though need to check) that some depressed individuals feel better in wartime as they have an external focus and sense of community enforced. So probably that was part of it. Economic deprivation in

Do you really think feminists have nothing left to fight for? There have been strong gains , but the rise of VAWG and continuing issues of porn, Andrew Tate, Grok u dressing women etc surely show feminists can't just down tools? Women are more likely to be lone parents affected by COL crisis too.

Carla786 · 14/03/2026 20:41

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/03/2026 20:32

Fact is, for all the posturing we do need men to be onboard with equality.

I sort of agree. Unfortunately those accustomed to privilege see equality as oppression. Suffragettes and other women have always got stuck in in wartime, done their bit, and more. When the war ended, their accomplishments were buried and minimised and men didn't stand alongside their rightful claim that they were equal.

On the contrary, men publicly opposed the struggle for equality. Many still do.

Edited

If you mean WW1, of course there was still a lot of sexism, but women did get the vote? Which promises don't you think we're honoured?

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/03/2026 20:44

Carla786 · 14/03/2026 20:41

If you mean WW1, of course there was still a lot of sexism, but women did get the vote? Which promises don't you think we're honoured?

WWI? Yes. And WWII and all the other wars. Women didn't get the vote after WWI because men demanded it. They didn't.🤷‍♀️ Women's vote equality didnt happen until 1928 in the UK.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/03/2026 21:12

In 1928 women got the vote, but we didn't get equality. We're still fighting for it though. In parliament, on the internet and in our communities.

GaIadriel · 15/03/2026 00:35

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/03/2026 20:44

WWI? Yes. And WWII and all the other wars. Women didn't get the vote after WWI because men demanded it. They didn't.🤷‍♀️ Women's vote equality didnt happen until 1928 in the UK.

Edited

I watched an interesting debate recently where a guy was debating with a load of feminist guests on his show. He asked the hypothetical question as to whether the people that will be expected to give their lives in the outbreak of war should have more political say than those that wouldn't be expected to fight.

He made the point that it's a morally difficult situation when a demographic can vote in parties/politicians that might start a war but won't be expected to fight in that war themselves. It gave me pause for thought tbh.

I'm absolutely not suggesting that women shouldn't have the vote but the guy had a point - he said "how would you feel if men got two votes?" This was in the US where every man is mandated to sign up for the draft (Selective Service).

Of course, feminists usually argue that it's men that start the wars, but I think it needs to be looked at with a bit more nuance. I'd hardly blame the men of Ukraine for defending their country against the Russians, for example. It benefits all Ukrainians. And whenever I've seen it discussed it seems that the majority of women absolutely don't want to be part of the draft.

I'd imagine this attitude would've been even more prevalent in the time of WW1/WW2.

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 00:45

GaIadriel · 15/03/2026 00:35

I watched an interesting debate recently where a guy was debating with a load of feminist guests on his show. He asked the hypothetical question as to whether the people that will be expected to give their lives in the outbreak of war should have more political say than those that wouldn't be expected to fight.

He made the point that it's a morally difficult situation when a demographic can vote in parties/politicians that might start a war but won't be expected to fight in that war themselves. It gave me pause for thought tbh.

I'm absolutely not suggesting that women shouldn't have the vote but the guy had a point - he said "how would you feel if men got two votes?" This was in the US where every man is mandated to sign up for the draft (Selective Service).

Of course, feminists usually argue that it's men that start the wars, but I think it needs to be looked at with a bit more nuance. I'd hardly blame the men of Ukraine for defending their country against the Russians, for example. It benefits all Ukrainians. And whenever I've seen it discussed it seems that the majority of women absolutely don't want to be part of the draft.

I'd imagine this attitude would've been even more prevalent in the time of WW1/WW2.

Edited

Anyone who's interested in warfare knows wars are mostly not fought one on one. They haven't been in centuries. Wars are won and lost on intelligence and luck.

Where and when you get male boots on the ground, you get increased violence against women. All women. Those in the war zone, those adjacent to the war zone, the women at home and future generations.

The women fighting in Ukraine are proof of that. They're not the only ones.

Tinkerbellonthelash · 15/03/2026 00:47

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/03/2026 21:12

In 1928 women got the vote, but we didn't get equality. We're still fighting for it though. In parliament, on the internet and in our communities.

We should always keep fighting for equality but if as OP suggests AMALT it's a battle we'll never win as the term "AMALT" is so final it means collectively they'll never give enough ground.

If AMALT is attributed to certain behaviors like a tendency to be a aggressive more often than us (simple example I can't list em all I'm not qualified to either) then there's room for men to hold themselves accountable and change other behaviors but a blanket AMALT surely suggests there will never be a time of true equality for women

GaIadriel · 15/03/2026 01:02

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the suffragettes tbh. I think their idolisation is at the very least controversial. Some of the stuff they attempted would've been on the level of the Manchester Arena bombing had it been successful. I doubt that anyone who disagrees would be happy for their innocent daughter to burn to death whilst visiting the theatre to further the feminist cause.

The campaign, led by key WSPU figures such as Emmeline Pankhurst, targeted infrastructure, government, churches and the general public, and saw the use of improvised explosive devices, arson, letter bombs, assassination attempts and other forms of direct action and violence. At least four people were killed in the attacks, and at least 24 were injured.

Both suffragettes and the authorities of the time described the arson and bomb attacks as a terrorist campaign.

The WSPU was not the only militant suffragette group. The Women's Freedom League attacked ballot boxes at the 1909 Bermondsey by-election with acid, blinding the returning officer in one eye and causing severe burns to the Liberal agent's neck.

On 8 December, Davison attempted to set fire to the busy post office in Fleet Street with a burning, kerosene-soaked cloth enclosed within an envelope, but the intended fire did not take hold. Six days later, Davison set fire to two pillar boxes in the City of London, before again attempting to set fire to a post office in Parliament Street, but was arrested during the act and imprisoned.

After 1911, suffragette violence was directed increasingly at commercial concerns and then at the general public. This violence was encouraged by the leadership of the WSPU. In particular, the daughter of WSPU leader Emmeline Pankhurst, Christabel Pankhurst, actively planned a self-described "reign of terror". Emmeline Pankhurst stated that the aim of the campaign was "to make England and every department of English life insecure and unsafe".

In June and July 1912, five serious incidents signified the beginning of the campaign in earnest: the homes of three anti-suffrage cabinet ministers were attacked, a powerful bomb was planted in the Home Secretary's office and the Theatre Royal, Dublin, was set aflame and bombed while an audience attended a performance. One of the most dangerous attacks committed by the suffragettes, the attack on the Theatre Royal was carried out by Mary Leigh, Gladys Evans, Lizzie Baker and Mabel Capper, who attempted to set fire to the building during a packed lunchtime matinee attended by prime minister H. H. Asquith. A canister of gunpowder was left close to the stage and petrol and lit matches were thrown into the projection booth, which contained highly combustible film reels. Earlier that day, Leigh hurled a hatchet towards Asquith, which narrowly missed, instead cutting Irish MP John Redmond on the ear.

The suffragettes invented the letter bomb, a device intended to kill or injure the recipient, and an increasing number began to be posted. On 29 January, several letter bombs were sent to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, David Lloyd George, and the prime minister Asquith, but they all exploded in post offices, post boxes or mailbags while in transit. In the following weeks, further attacks on letters and mailboxes occurred in cities such as Coventry, London, Edinburgh, Northampton, and York, and in Aberdeen, thick black ink was used to obliterate addresses in postal boxes.

On 6 February five postmen were burned, four severely, in Dundee after handling a phosphorus suffragette letter bomb addressed to Asquith. On 19 February, there was a suffragette bomb attack on Lloyd George's house, Pinfold Manor, with two bombs planted perhaps by Emily Davison. Only one exploded, seriously damaging the building but causing no injuries. The explosion occurred shortly before the arrival of workmen at the house, and the crude nature of the timer – a candle – meant the bomb had been likely to explode while the men were present. WSPU Leader Emmeline Pankhurst was arrested for planning the attack on Lloyd George's house and sentenced to three years in prison. Between February and March, railway signal wires across the country were deliberately cut, further endangering train journeys.

In May 1913, the Ashley Road Public School in Aberdeen had its roof destroyed by fire, with arson materials. Amongst the other targets selected by suffragettes were sporting events: there was a failed attempt to burn down the grounds of the All England Lawn Tennis Club at Wimbledon, while a plot to burn down the grandstand of Crystal Palace F.C.'s football ground on the eve of the 1913 FA Cup Final was also foiled.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign

GaIadriel · 15/03/2026 01:09

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 00:45

Anyone who's interested in warfare knows wars are mostly not fought one on one. They haven't been in centuries. Wars are won and lost on intelligence and luck.

Where and when you get male boots on the ground, you get increased violence against women. All women. Those in the war zone, those adjacent to the war zone, the women at home and future generations.

The women fighting in Ukraine are proof of that. They're not the only ones.

Edited

Anyone who's interested in warfare knows wars are mostly not fought one on one. They haven't been in centuries. Wars are won and lost on intelligence and luck.

You've clearly not been following the Ukraine war then.

Russia is the world's second biggest military power. It ranks only a sliver behind the US on the firepower index (0.045 vs 0.050). If the common view of 'wars being fought by drones' was true then the conflict would look very different.

The reality is that there's a huge amount of infantry fighting. People shooting at each other in the streets. It's literally been described as 'high tech trench warfare'.

GaIadriel · 15/03/2026 01:14

And yes women do absolutely get raped etc in wars. But 90% of the 5.7m Ukrainian refugees who've left so far are women and children. The men aren't allowed to.

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 01:34

GaIadriel · 15/03/2026 01:09

Anyone who's interested in warfare knows wars are mostly not fought one on one. They haven't been in centuries. Wars are won and lost on intelligence and luck.

You've clearly not been following the Ukraine war then.

Russia is the world's second biggest military power. It ranks only a sliver behind the US on the firepower index (0.045 vs 0.050). If the common view of 'wars being fought by drones' was true then the conflict would look very different.

The reality is that there's a huge amount of infantry fighting. People shooting at each other in the streets. It's literally been described as 'high tech trench warfare'.

Russia is the world's second biggest military power.

But it's shite. It used to be the 2nd best army in the world. Then it was the 2nd best army in Ukraine. When Pregozhin marched towards Moscow, the Russian army was the 2nd best army in Russia! It is drafting convicts, conning foreign nationals and hiring slaves from North Korea to "man" its front lines.

The Ukrainian army OTOH are successfully resisting and fighting because of their intelligence and resilience and women.

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 15/03/2026 01:50

If we're talking war let's not forget it was Margaret Thatcher who led us into the Falklands war

Carla786 · 15/03/2026 02:09

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 15/03/2026 01:50

If we're talking war let's not forget it was Margaret Thatcher who led us into the Falklands war

Do you think we should have let the dictator Galtieri take over a place where the majority of the residents wished to remain ruled by us?

It was a horrible situation, but I think it was a just war. It's believed to have helped free Argentina from the junta too.

Carla786 · 15/03/2026 02:11

GaIadriel · 15/03/2026 01:02

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the suffragettes tbh. I think their idolisation is at the very least controversial. Some of the stuff they attempted would've been on the level of the Manchester Arena bombing had it been successful. I doubt that anyone who disagrees would be happy for their innocent daughter to burn to death whilst visiting the theatre to further the feminist cause.

The campaign, led by key WSPU figures such as Emmeline Pankhurst, targeted infrastructure, government, churches and the general public, and saw the use of improvised explosive devices, arson, letter bombs, assassination attempts and other forms of direct action and violence. At least four people were killed in the attacks, and at least 24 were injured.

Both suffragettes and the authorities of the time described the arson and bomb attacks as a terrorist campaign.

The WSPU was not the only militant suffragette group. The Women's Freedom League attacked ballot boxes at the 1909 Bermondsey by-election with acid, blinding the returning officer in one eye and causing severe burns to the Liberal agent's neck.

On 8 December, Davison attempted to set fire to the busy post office in Fleet Street with a burning, kerosene-soaked cloth enclosed within an envelope, but the intended fire did not take hold. Six days later, Davison set fire to two pillar boxes in the City of London, before again attempting to set fire to a post office in Parliament Street, but was arrested during the act and imprisoned.

After 1911, suffragette violence was directed increasingly at commercial concerns and then at the general public. This violence was encouraged by the leadership of the WSPU. In particular, the daughter of WSPU leader Emmeline Pankhurst, Christabel Pankhurst, actively planned a self-described "reign of terror". Emmeline Pankhurst stated that the aim of the campaign was "to make England and every department of English life insecure and unsafe".

In June and July 1912, five serious incidents signified the beginning of the campaign in earnest: the homes of three anti-suffrage cabinet ministers were attacked, a powerful bomb was planted in the Home Secretary's office and the Theatre Royal, Dublin, was set aflame and bombed while an audience attended a performance. One of the most dangerous attacks committed by the suffragettes, the attack on the Theatre Royal was carried out by Mary Leigh, Gladys Evans, Lizzie Baker and Mabel Capper, who attempted to set fire to the building during a packed lunchtime matinee attended by prime minister H. H. Asquith. A canister of gunpowder was left close to the stage and petrol and lit matches were thrown into the projection booth, which contained highly combustible film reels. Earlier that day, Leigh hurled a hatchet towards Asquith, which narrowly missed, instead cutting Irish MP John Redmond on the ear.

The suffragettes invented the letter bomb, a device intended to kill or injure the recipient, and an increasing number began to be posted. On 29 January, several letter bombs were sent to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, David Lloyd George, and the prime minister Asquith, but they all exploded in post offices, post boxes or mailbags while in transit. In the following weeks, further attacks on letters and mailboxes occurred in cities such as Coventry, London, Edinburgh, Northampton, and York, and in Aberdeen, thick black ink was used to obliterate addresses in postal boxes.

On 6 February five postmen were burned, four severely, in Dundee after handling a phosphorus suffragette letter bomb addressed to Asquith. On 19 February, there was a suffragette bomb attack on Lloyd George's house, Pinfold Manor, with two bombs planted perhaps by Emily Davison. Only one exploded, seriously damaging the building but causing no injuries. The explosion occurred shortly before the arrival of workmen at the house, and the crude nature of the timer – a candle – meant the bomb had been likely to explode while the men were present. WSPU Leader Emmeline Pankhurst was arrested for planning the attack on Lloyd George's house and sentenced to three years in prison. Between February and March, railway signal wires across the country were deliberately cut, further endangering train journeys.

In May 1913, the Ashley Road Public School in Aberdeen had its roof destroyed by fire, with arson materials. Amongst the other targets selected by suffragettes were sporting events: there was a failed attempt to burn down the grounds of the All England Lawn Tennis Club at Wimbledon, while a plot to burn down the grandstand of Crystal Palace F.C.'s football ground on the eve of the 1913 FA Cup Final was also foiled.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign

Yes, I support the suffragists and the many suffragettes who didn't engage in that kind of murderous behaviour, but the figures at the top, and several below, were dangerous criminals .

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 02:15

Faint heart never won equal rights for fair ladies. Or anyone for that matter.🤷‍♀️

Suffragettes and suffragists delivered women's rights at great personal cost. I am grateful to them. We stand on the shoulders of them giants.

Carla786 · 15/03/2026 02:16

GaIadriel · 15/03/2026 00:35

I watched an interesting debate recently where a guy was debating with a load of feminist guests on his show. He asked the hypothetical question as to whether the people that will be expected to give their lives in the outbreak of war should have more political say than those that wouldn't be expected to fight.

He made the point that it's a morally difficult situation when a demographic can vote in parties/politicians that might start a war but won't be expected to fight in that war themselves. It gave me pause for thought tbh.

I'm absolutely not suggesting that women shouldn't have the vote but the guy had a point - he said "how would you feel if men got two votes?" This was in the US where every man is mandated to sign up for the draft (Selective Service).

Of course, feminists usually argue that it's men that start the wars, but I think it needs to be looked at with a bit more nuance. I'd hardly blame the men of Ukraine for defending their country against the Russians, for example. It benefits all Ukrainians. And whenever I've seen it discussed it seems that the majority of women absolutely don't want to be part of the draft.

I'd imagine this attitude would've been even more prevalent in the time of WW1/WW2.

Edited

By that man's logic, pensioners should not have the vote, since they won't be physically fighting (or those aged 75+ are unlikely to be, anyway)..

Do you think we should ban pensioners from voting?

Or what about people running key services :
farmers, doctors, engineers etc, as well as obviously the top political leaders, who are not going to be physically fighting.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/five-key-jobs-could-avoid-36812636

Should they be exempt from voting?

Five key jobs which could avoid UK conscription call up if WW3 breaks out

As global tensions escalate, historical precedent from World War Two suggests some professions like doctors, farmers and engineers could be deemed too vital to conscript if the UK faced a major conflict

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/five-key-jobs-could-avoid-36812636

Carla786 · 15/03/2026 02:18

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 02:15

Faint heart never won equal rights for fair ladies. Or anyone for that matter.🤷‍♀️

Suffragettes and suffragists delivered women's rights at great personal cost. I am grateful to them. We stand on the shoulders of them giants.

Edited

What???

So you support the suffragette actions like bombing buildings with people inside??

By your logic, the IRA were justified, and so were many other terrorist groups.

Is that really what you believe?

Supporting suffragettes (the majority of whom did not endanger people's lives) and suffragists doesn't have to entail supporting terrorism..

Carla786 · 15/03/2026 02:25

GaIadriel · 15/03/2026 00:35

I watched an interesting debate recently where a guy was debating with a load of feminist guests on his show. He asked the hypothetical question as to whether the people that will be expected to give their lives in the outbreak of war should have more political say than those that wouldn't be expected to fight.

He made the point that it's a morally difficult situation when a demographic can vote in parties/politicians that might start a war but won't be expected to fight in that war themselves. It gave me pause for thought tbh.

I'm absolutely not suggesting that women shouldn't have the vote but the guy had a point - he said "how would you feel if men got two votes?" This was in the US where every man is mandated to sign up for the draft (Selective Service).

Of course, feminists usually argue that it's men that start the wars, but I think it needs to be looked at with a bit more nuance. I'd hardly blame the men of Ukraine for defending their country against the Russians, for example. It benefits all Ukrainians. And whenever I've seen it discussed it seems that the majority of women absolutely don't want to be part of the draft.

I'd imagine this attitude would've been even more prevalent in the time of WW1/WW2.

Edited

Re your point about the World Wars : women gained the vote if over 30 and property-owning right after WW1, and by WW2, all women had had the vote for 11 years. It would be interesting to look at male attitudes but it presumably wouldn't have been voted in if there had been huge amounts of male opposition.

'And whenever I've seen it discussed it seems that the majority of women absolutely don't want to be part of the draft.'

  • this does depend on country, though. Israeli women generally agree to serve. Nordic women too.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/11/19/which-european-countries-draft-women-into-the-army-and-why-germany-still-doesnt

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.dw.com/en/which-countries-require-military-service-for-women/a-72151079&ved=2ahUKEwjX2-OJ7aCTAxVpWkEAHQ6qG34QFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1jDkWDxyXH1klmgn0OnjuT

Which European countries draft women into the army? And why Germany still doesn't

Which European countries draft women, and why Germany doesn't

Germany is planning to bring back a form of military service — but only men are required to sign up. Amid misinformation about the measure online, here's why and how unusual Germany's revived military service is. #TheCube

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/11/19/which-european-countries-draft-women-into-the-army-and-why-germany-still-doesnt

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 02:29

I'm absolutely not suggesting that women shouldn't have the vote but the guy had a point - he said "how would you feel if men got two votes?"

My grandparents and parents grew up in a similar system. Business and property owners had more votes than those renting. They opposed it, fought it and won. One Person, One Vote.

Why should we relinquish that and why was it even being mentioned?

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 02:31

Carla786 · 15/03/2026 02:18

What???

So you support the suffragette actions like bombing buildings with people inside??

By your logic, the IRA were justified, and so were many other terrorist groups.

Is that really what you believe?

Supporting suffragettes (the majority of whom did not endanger people's lives) and suffragists doesn't have to entail supporting terrorism..

Edited

Can you tell me of any oppressed group in history who got equal rights by simply asking?

Carla786 · 15/03/2026 02:34

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 02:31

Can you tell me of any oppressed group in history who got equal rights by simply asking?

So does this mean you not only think the suffragettes who bombed civilians were alright to do that, you think other terrorist groups were?

Do you also think the IRA were justified in what they did?

What about Irgun and Lehi - were they right to bomb the King David Hotel because the British were too often anti Semitic and did far less than they could have to help Holocaust survivors?

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 02:47

Had men copped on and given women fair rights, when they asked, none of the violence, sexual assaults and torture need have happened. But men didn't. And amazing, brave women carried on. They suffered. They got us the vote.

Sneer and condemn them all you like but we are in a better place because they fought for it.

Carla786 · 15/03/2026 02:57

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 02:47

Had men copped on and given women fair rights, when they asked, none of the violence, sexual assaults and torture need have happened. But men didn't. And amazing, brave women carried on. They suffered. They got us the vote.

Sneer and condemn them all you like but we are in a better place because they fought for it.

Edited

I'm not condemning the bravery of any campaigners for female suffrage, and certainly not sneering.

What I am condemning is violence against civilians which the majority did NOT commit.

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/03/2026 02:59

Carla786 · 15/03/2026 02:57

I'm not condemning the bravery of any campaigners for female suffrage, and certainly not sneering.

What I am condemning is violence against civilians which the majority did NOT commit.

Edited

What do you think they should have done differently?

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