Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NAMALT. Really? Dig deep and be honest with yourself. AMALT

571 replies

NoEggs · 04/03/2026 21:47

I love my DH. He’s a great guy and we’ve been happy for many years.

But
He’s not perfect. Doesn’t do the laundry. Defaults to letting me make stuff happen etc. etc.

Now even if your partner is a paragon I would argue that the species ‘men’ will generally default to slightly bloody useless.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
TooBigForMyBoots · 12/03/2026 23:47

Aggressively attacked doesn't mean someone who disagrees with you on the internet @exhaustDAD.

Ask any woman who's been the victim of an aggressive attack.🤨

GaIadriel · 12/03/2026 23:53

exhaustDAD · 12/03/2026 22:55

No. Not historical events, not big generalisations of different idealisms. Not anecdotes and "what ifs".
Concrete examples of what advantages your son today, in 2026 and the following years living in a modern, civilised part of the world has compared to your daughter in terms of education, career opportunities, owning wealth, or general freedom? What is she not allowed to do or have that he is?

Edited

She doesn't have the honour of mandatory enrolment in the draft like all men in the worlds richest, most powerful country do. Without it being mandatory it's entirely possible that some would miss out on the glory of being sent to die in the middle east on the whim of President Trump.

And of course it's an enormous privilege to spend your entire life working until you're a pensioner. If the system was any different it's possible that men would fall into the same trap many women do and fail to return to full time work in their 30s, missing a whole 40 years of meetings and days spent sitting in a chair. Can you imagine?

exhaustDAD · 12/03/2026 23:58

TooBigForMyBoots · 12/03/2026 23:39

But you aggressively attack me...

No I don't ya melt.🙈
Aggresively attacked? Because I had the temerity to argue with you and back my arguements with facts and statistics?

Catch yerself on.😆😆😆

Edited

I see. I'm not the one resorting to name-calling in a discussion, either. That is tool number 1 for anyone on the offensive.
And what you just said is the root of why this discussion breaks down - Backing up your arguments with specific facts and statistics, which don't necessarily provide a 1-to-1 explanation to it. Again - nobody is debating the existence of those horrible things happening in the world. But those are backing up different arguments directly, not female superiority.
Your argument is women are superior to men. Your reasoning that is supposed to back this up is a collection of atrocities of a certain percentage of people as a whole. How does that stand?

You and I cannot jump in there to stop entire wars, or change belief systems of different cultures, but what we can do is be responsible for our own actions in our everyday lives. Teach our sons and daughters to be decent humans, not oppressing anyone, not using violence against anyone - and certainly not that they are better than anyone just because they were lucky enough to born this or that.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/03/2026 00:25

exhaustDAD · 12/03/2026 23:58

I see. I'm not the one resorting to name-calling in a discussion, either. That is tool number 1 for anyone on the offensive.
And what you just said is the root of why this discussion breaks down - Backing up your arguments with specific facts and statistics, which don't necessarily provide a 1-to-1 explanation to it. Again - nobody is debating the existence of those horrible things happening in the world. But those are backing up different arguments directly, not female superiority.
Your argument is women are superior to men. Your reasoning that is supposed to back this up is a collection of atrocities of a certain percentage of people as a whole. How does that stand?

You and I cannot jump in there to stop entire wars, or change belief systems of different cultures, but what we can do is be responsible for our own actions in our everyday lives. Teach our sons and daughters to be decent humans, not oppressing anyone, not using violence against anyone - and certainly not that they are better than anyone just because they were lucky enough to born this or that.

Backing up your arguments with specific facts and statistics, which don't necessarily provide a 1-to-1 explanation to it.

Statistics are statistics.🤷‍♀️. Surely I don't need to explain them to you one to one.

As for female superiority, I didn't bring it up. It's one of those things you made up in your own head to contradict a mumsnetter making a valid point. Like the Jekyll and Hyde stuff upthread and you claiming to being the victim of an aggressive attack.

It's not real. I get that these are your beliefs, but it's not reality.🤷‍♀️

exhaustDAD · 13/03/2026 00:57

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/03/2026 00:25

Backing up your arguments with specific facts and statistics, which don't necessarily provide a 1-to-1 explanation to it.

Statistics are statistics.🤷‍♀️. Surely I don't need to explain them to you one to one.

As for female superiority, I didn't bring it up. It's one of those things you made up in your own head to contradict a mumsnetter making a valid point. Like the Jekyll and Hyde stuff upthread and you claiming to being the victim of an aggressive attack.

It's not real. I get that these are your beliefs, but it's not reality.🤷‍♀️

If you do not understand that not all statistics explain every single argument - however accurate numbers they may be - I don't know what to tell you.

The Jekyll and Hyde line was just a throwaway line, representing in a joking way that I am not sure what I have done, because I wasn't present for a while (Just like Jekyll is not present when Hyde is there) because I have stepped away from the thread, unwatched it, haven't said a thing on it for over a day. And yet you tagged me, just because you felt the need to make a comment specifically about how I am not the first of last self-pitying man, and something about whinging victimhood. (Victimhood is something all your comments are full of, by the way, unforgivable things happening to a lot of people - and here we are, you, a person not living the horrible reality of those people, using it to argue with people like me, who do not do these horrible things. What does it accomplish?). And speaking of made-up things - I am no victim of anything, I do not claim to be. I trust you'll allow me to decide for myself that much. Hmm, how did you say it... these are your beliefs, but it's not reality.

Anyway, tell you what. You win. Your argument is valid, I am utterly beaten, I retreat. please, do continue hating on men as a whole, enjoy solving nothing with it.

Carla786 · 13/03/2026 01:08

AuntyAngela · 12/03/2026 08:53

Saying “nearly every important thing has been invented by men” is simply ignorance.

As @Sustainbrain points out for centuries women were excluded from universities, scientific institutions, funding, and patents. Despite those barriers, women still invented and discovered things that changed the world.

Examples include Ada Lovelace (the first published computer algorithm), Hedy Lamarr (technology that underpins Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and GPS), Stephanie Kwolek (Kevlar), Josephine Cochrane (the dishwasher), Mary Anderson (windshield wipers), Grace Hopper (the first computer compiler), and Marie Van Brittan Brown (the home security system).

There are also cases where women’s work was credited to men, such as Rosalind Franklin’s crucial role in the discovery of DNA’s structure, Jocelyn Bell Burnell’s discovery of pulsars, and Lise Meitner’s work on nuclear fission.

And even if some inventions were made by men, that doesn’t mean men today get a lifetime exemption from housework or childcare. The achievements of a few individuals don’t justify unequal expectations for everyone else — partnership means sharing responsibilities.

These are great examples, the Matilda Effect pp mentioned is a very real thing..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matilda_effect

Hey Lamarr though - I don't think she fits, as if anything there seems to be strong evidence that she potentially did not do as much as claimed (the book Everything's Relative is good on this). It is certain that WiFi, GPS and Bluetooth do not use frequency hopping, the tech she co-patented with George Antheil, though that doesn't negate what they did.

www.americanscientist.org/article/random-paths-to-frequency-hopping

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/03/2026 01:09

exhaustDAD · 13/03/2026 00:57

If you do not understand that not all statistics explain every single argument - however accurate numbers they may be - I don't know what to tell you.

The Jekyll and Hyde line was just a throwaway line, representing in a joking way that I am not sure what I have done, because I wasn't present for a while (Just like Jekyll is not present when Hyde is there) because I have stepped away from the thread, unwatched it, haven't said a thing on it for over a day. And yet you tagged me, just because you felt the need to make a comment specifically about how I am not the first of last self-pitying man, and something about whinging victimhood. (Victimhood is something all your comments are full of, by the way, unforgivable things happening to a lot of people - and here we are, you, a person not living the horrible reality of those people, using it to argue with people like me, who do not do these horrible things. What does it accomplish?). And speaking of made-up things - I am no victim of anything, I do not claim to be. I trust you'll allow me to decide for myself that much. Hmm, how did you say it... these are your beliefs, but it's not reality.

Anyway, tell you what. You win. Your argument is valid, I am utterly beaten, I retreat. please, do continue hating on men as a whole, enjoy solving nothing with it.

Edited

I don't hate men. You made that up.

I'm realistic about men.🤷‍♀️

Carla786 · 13/03/2026 01:20

GaIadriel · 12/03/2026 22:50

And tbf if we're going to talk about men not pulling their weight at home (which many don't I'll admit) then what about who shoulders the financial burden?

If you have a middle aged couple and only one of them works full time (or at all) what is the likely sex of the one who doesn't work? 🤔 We all know the answer. All the talk of 'mental load' on here is ridiculous. What's more stressful between managing a company/team and managing a trip to Tesco/writing the xmas cards?

I think that whether or not we're oppressed it's clear that as a sex we're nowhere near as good at sucking it up and getting on with it.

'it's clear that as a sex we're nowhere near as good at sucking it up and getting on with it.'

  • hmm...my grandmother had a stroke in her mid-40s from 'sucking up and getting on' with managing 3 kids, a dying mother and a full-time teaching job. She was OK in the end, and this is obviously extreme..

but I think it's pretty common for women to 'suck up and get on with' shoulder multiple kids, elderly parents sometimes, a job usually, and sometimes without partner suppprt in the case of single parents. If children have SEN, women tend to be the primary carers erc. I think it's a bit much to make a sweeping statement that women in general are less good at getting on with things.

Remember also a lot of women use Mumsnet to vent about mental load etc, it doesn't mean they're unable to get on with jobs etc in real life. It's a bit like the diary I kept as a teenager : if you read it, you might think my DM & I argued all the time because I often said angry things about her. But actually we didn't argue that much, though sometimes ofc), and were close, but I used it as a venting tool.

GaIadriel · 13/03/2026 01:33

I don't really want to get into another mud slinging match though. Appreciate I can be a little direct at times but ultimately it's just my opinion, which many no doubt disagree with. And we certainly hear enough of the counter argument. Often in an equally aggressive manner.

But my experience is that I notice a lot of women espousing strongly feminist views when young (in their late teens/their 20s) but quietly shifting their focus with age. Initially, they go from being a kid to a young adult and the commencement of university often exposes them to a lot of new ideas. Logically, it makes sense that women should be paid as much as men, and statistically it's clear that as a group we're not.

You'll see a lot of young women trying to 'educate' the rest of society as if they've experienced some epiphany of truth which the unenlightened majority haven't. Not just with feminism but all manner of woke stuff.

But then many of us hit our 30s and things start to change. I'm only a little past 30 but I notice it in many of my older friends from my office days. When I was in my early 20s and they their late 20s it was all about the career and climbing the ladder etc. But then many had kids and stepped back for a bit. At some point they decided that their husband/partner's salary was enough for them to stay part time and that's what they did.

I think many shift focus and prioritise their family/children over their career, which may be an innate biological drive, but that's a discussion for another thread. I see many such women popping up in SAHM threads and often they're quite defensive of their choices, like some working women are a little derisive of 'full time mothers'. A common reply is 'we did what was best for our family' or 'what we decide is nobody else's business'.

Both are reasonable statements IMO but it must be acknowledged that these choices are a significant factor driving the pay gap and many of these women might've sung a different song a decade prior. Ultimately, their choices fuel the debate around the pay gap.

Of course it's not always a choice and some families can't afford to lose the wage of the primary earner. But if you holiday several times a year, have a nice house, drive nice cars, have kids at private school, etc, then most likely you could tighten the belt and get by with two full time salaries totalling slightly less than one optimised salary.

The reality is that people will often talk a good game but ultimately do what gives them the greatest personal benefit/quality of life. Especially given that the personal reward will be significant compared to the social benefit bestowed by a single person choosing personal sacrifice for the greater good - this only works when many thousands of people do it. It's just human nature to put yourself and your family first.

If straight white men are the most privileged demographic then straight white women are a close second. And the latter are usually the first to complain about the former, despite being the ones that choose to marry them. Once you're in your 30s-40s with kids at school, working part time, sharing a joint bank account, living a decent life. This is the point where you probably aren't too upset about men earning more, because if they didn't your family would be much less comfortable.

NGL, if I met an extremely wealthy Channing Tatum lookalike who was rich enough for me to become a lady of leisure without blinking an eye, I'd probs give it a crack. If it didn't work out there's always another machine to drive and it usually takes but a couple of calls to get another £50k job starting next week. Might just have to spend a few hundred updating my tickets/CPC if it'd been more than a few years.

Appreciate that's not the case for all women but generally reward doesn't come without risk. If you don't want to risk remortgaging your house/wasting your savings then nobody is forcing you to start a business, but you probs won't end up extremely wealthy either. Having the option to work part time for 30-40 years without any personal risk is an absurd expectation IMO, but no doubt more appealing a risk if you're not a high earner or in a career job - a minimum wage worker has much less to lose and may well walk away better off.

The conversation is typically framed from a middle class professional perspective but honestly I'm doubtful if all the Range Rover driving bimbos I see turning up at my mate's daughter's private school would be earning £100k were they working full time.

Apologies, I was trying to write a more diplomatic post but I've failed. 🤣

GaIadriel · 13/03/2026 01:45

Carla786 · 13/03/2026 01:20

'it's clear that as a sex we're nowhere near as good at sucking it up and getting on with it.'

  • hmm...my grandmother had a stroke in her mid-40s from 'sucking up and getting on' with managing 3 kids, a dying mother and a full-time teaching job. She was OK in the end, and this is obviously extreme..

but I think it's pretty common for women to 'suck up and get on with' shoulder multiple kids, elderly parents sometimes, a job usually, and sometimes without partner suppprt in the case of single parents. If children have SEN, women tend to be the primary carers erc. I think it's a bit much to make a sweeping statement that women in general are less good at getting on with things.

Remember also a lot of women use Mumsnet to vent about mental load etc, it doesn't mean they're unable to get on with jobs etc in real life. It's a bit like the diary I kept as a teenager : if you read it, you might think my DM & I argued all the time because I often said angry things about her. But actually we didn't argue that much, though sometimes ofc), and were close, but I used it as a venting tool.

Fair points. I guess my point is less that women don't have it hard and more that men don't universally have it easy.

Nellodee · 13/03/2026 06:27

42% of marriages end in divorce after a median length of 12 years. This means that a large amount of those privileged white women making different choices after having their kids are actually going to be fucked over by those choices. The remaining 58% won’t necessarily have even access to finances or secure pension provision. They just have to hope that “not my Nigel” works out for them. They had probably better not read the relationship boards on here.

Blindly relying on a spouse without ensuring financial security is playing roulette with your future. Better hope you bet on the right colour.

Nellodee · 13/03/2026 06:32

I appreciate that a minimum wage earner marrying a millionaire may find that an acceptable risk, but for many more couples, wages are fairly comparable before having kids and start to diverge after that point. That’s why it’s called the motherhood penalty.

exhaustDAD · 13/03/2026 07:11

I think coming to forums to vent personal frustrations is completely fine, at least it's a channel where you can let off some pent-up frustration. But there is a difference between:
a) My stupid boss (M) said the most sexist joke today, and while I was walking home from work idiots on scaffolding catcalled me, and tot op it off, my Nigel at home didn't even bother to prepare dinner for us and kids.
and b) every single man in the world is just an oppressing, sexist pig who benefits from patriarchy, thus making my own group superior/or their group just overall bad.

The fist is a reasonable complaint, every single individual made a poor choice that day, and are morons who need to do better. The second can be so damaging, because it can shape other opinions, it can be taught to kids as well. And then, bottom line is that instead of engaging in meaningful conversation, it just draws a line in a the sand, and that's it. There is no development, not making anyone's lives better.

In terms of the status of being a SAHP - One of the most important jobs out there. Is it hard? Demanding? Tiring? Yes. But let's be honest. Slaving away for a company that is not yours, demands your blood so it can generate profit on the back of it, forcing you to be away from your loved ones, to be in a place you don't choose to be, to be around people you don't choose to be, and doing something you wouldn't do out of leisure otherwise is way worse than "slaving" away for your family, with your family, at home. You are doing things so your family benefits from it, your loved ones. I would choose the latter any time. I am saying it as a father of two year-6 kids, who was the stay-at-home parent between their ages of 3 and 8. I will take having to figure out a proper meal while sorting after-school activities with a GP appointment and play date, and laundry by the time my wife came home. Is being a SAHP easy? No. Is it easier than commuting to work and do stupid hours just to pay the bills? Yes. At least for me it was. And I do mean this, even though every day, once everyone was asleep I took a few hours to work on my own business so my wife is not having to be the only earner in our family. Today it's just a dream, unfortunately it's worth it for us more if I keep my current, full-time job. Now I shovel shit (metaphorically) for some C-suite's benefit, and I miss shovelling our own shit at home, because at least it was our shit, my shovel, making our home nicer. Correction - there is still shit shovelling every day, just not as a SAHP.

category12 · 13/03/2026 07:12

GaIadriel · 12/03/2026 23:53

She doesn't have the honour of mandatory enrolment in the draft like all men in the worlds richest, most powerful country do. Without it being mandatory it's entirely possible that some would miss out on the glory of being sent to die in the middle east on the whim of President Trump.

And of course it's an enormous privilege to spend your entire life working until you're a pensioner. If the system was any different it's possible that men would fall into the same trap many women do and fail to return to full time work in their 30s, missing a whole 40 years of meetings and days spent sitting in a chair. Can you imagine?

Lol, bingo! I wondered how long it would take you to get to the US draft 😂 I thought you said men going to war was a good thing they did for us.

Patriarchy hurts men too Rigid role policing and sexist stereotyping is bad for everyone. Limiting what people can do because of their sex is bad, forcing them into roles they don't want is bad. Men's socially accepted emotions should not be just happy or angry.

As a class, men benefit more from patriarchy than women, but it doesn't come without its poisonous elements for them.

Carla786 · 13/03/2026 13:21

GaIadriel · 13/03/2026 01:45

Fair points. I guess my point is less that women don't have it hard and more that men don't universally have it easy.

I agree on that, I don't think that kind of generalisation is helpful either.

ainsleysanob · 13/03/2026 13:34

I’m far more useless than my husband!

Frequency · 13/03/2026 13:51

Of course, men have it easier, not in every single aspect of life, of course, but overall.

There are the obvious ways their life is easier, such as physical strength, less likely to be raped/murdered/the victim of domestic abuse, or underpaid or overlooked at work. These are all facts.

There's also less serious ways their lives are easier, such as the way they are automatically assumed to have a certain level of knowledge in areas where women are assumed to be incapable. How many times have women on this thread been told, "We can only speak to your husband," or "your husband can do that for you when he gets home"?

My DH, when he was with us, was rubbish at anything practical or technical, but that didn't stop workmen talking directly to him and ignoring me, despite my being the one who arranged the quote, greeted them at the door, told them what we needed, etc., and despite the fact that I worked in construction when I was younger DH didn't even know how to change a lightbulb much less how to fit a UPVC window or how much the latter should cost.

Ditto Virgin Media, they've dropped off equipment for "my husband to set up when he gets home" at least twice. The same husband, who once called me to tell me the internet was off and we needed an engineer now because he needed to watch a football game on a terrestrial TV channel, Confused. Turns out he'd unplugged the router to plug in what he thought was the Freeview box, but was actually the charging cable to DD's laptop, which is why his TV wasn't working.

Balloonhearts · 13/03/2026 13:59

It's learned uselessness. That's all that's expected from them. Anyone, male or female, will put in as little effort as they can reasonably get away with in order to have an easy, happy life.

Also a bit of weaponised incompetence. If you hate doing something, do such a half arsed job and take so long doing it that you will almost certainly never be asked to do it again.

A lot of men aren't like that and honestly, the only thing in common between them is that it simply wouldn't be tolerated. Their wives/parents/family expect more of them and would be out the door in a flash if they behaved like you see a lot of other men doing.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/03/2026 18:36

exhaustDAD · 13/03/2026 07:11

I think coming to forums to vent personal frustrations is completely fine, at least it's a channel where you can let off some pent-up frustration. But there is a difference between:
a) My stupid boss (M) said the most sexist joke today, and while I was walking home from work idiots on scaffolding catcalled me, and tot op it off, my Nigel at home didn't even bother to prepare dinner for us and kids.
and b) every single man in the world is just an oppressing, sexist pig who benefits from patriarchy, thus making my own group superior/or their group just overall bad.

The fist is a reasonable complaint, every single individual made a poor choice that day, and are morons who need to do better. The second can be so damaging, because it can shape other opinions, it can be taught to kids as well. And then, bottom line is that instead of engaging in meaningful conversation, it just draws a line in a the sand, and that's it. There is no development, not making anyone's lives better.

In terms of the status of being a SAHP - One of the most important jobs out there. Is it hard? Demanding? Tiring? Yes. But let's be honest. Slaving away for a company that is not yours, demands your blood so it can generate profit on the back of it, forcing you to be away from your loved ones, to be in a place you don't choose to be, to be around people you don't choose to be, and doing something you wouldn't do out of leisure otherwise is way worse than "slaving" away for your family, with your family, at home. You are doing things so your family benefits from it, your loved ones. I would choose the latter any time. I am saying it as a father of two year-6 kids, who was the stay-at-home parent between their ages of 3 and 8. I will take having to figure out a proper meal while sorting after-school activities with a GP appointment and play date, and laundry by the time my wife came home. Is being a SAHP easy? No. Is it easier than commuting to work and do stupid hours just to pay the bills? Yes. At least for me it was. And I do mean this, even though every day, once everyone was asleep I took a few hours to work on my own business so my wife is not having to be the only earner in our family. Today it's just a dream, unfortunately it's worth it for us more if I keep my current, full-time job. Now I shovel shit (metaphorically) for some C-suite's benefit, and I miss shovelling our own shit at home, because at least it was our shit, my shovel, making our home nicer. Correction - there is still shit shovelling every day, just not as a SAHP.

Edited

It's not about you. Or what happens in your marriage.🙄

exhaustDAD · 13/03/2026 19:11

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/03/2026 18:36

It's not about you. Or what happens in your marriage.🙄

Congratulations, a reaction worthy of a 10-year-old, roughly. Arguing for the sake of arguing is pretty special, not every day do you meet a fellow adult with the debate culture of a pre-teen. I stepped away from the endless mud-swinging with you, I specifically stepped away from responding directly to you, not sure why you feel the need to take your time and tag someone with unnecessary childish whinging.

There are countless comments in this thread where people share their own personal experiences. Not one of them did you feel the urge to tag with "It's not about you". Why isn't it about me or my marriage? The original topic was about husbands being more useless in a marriage than their wives. Not about me? How cute, do I not fall under the category of useless husbands? Thank you.

I am sorry to make fun of it, but it's hard to take it seriously. Take care, let's not continue talking.

Frequency · 13/03/2026 19:29

@exhaustDAD "NAMALT I am not like that."

<Spends the entire thread acting exactly like that>

exhaustDAD · 13/03/2026 19:35

Yup. Very true. I am busted, @Frequency. I have completely filled the thread with not doing housework, being a lazy father, an abusive man-child, and an emotionally unavailable partner (?). I am not sure how that adds up at all, but I thought the whole NAMALT thing being discussed here was about that. But it's ok.
Take care everyone, enjoy your Friday!

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/03/2026 19:41

Frequency · 13/03/2026 19:29

@exhaustDAD "NAMALT I am not like that."

<Spends the entire thread acting exactly like that>

Yep.

MrsChristmasHasResigned · 13/03/2026 20:04

The motherhood penalty does not explain the whole pay gap. The systemic ways women are discriminated against are explained in hosts of research, its not hard to find. Yes, some things are less favourable to men like the draft. And working until you drop is not a solely male preserve. Women are shown (in the research) to be much more financially negatively affected by divorce then men.

To say at this point that the only evidence put forward in this thread is anecdotal is disingenuous.

OhamIreally · 13/03/2026 21:45

Frequency · 13/03/2026 19:29

@exhaustDAD "NAMALT I am not like that."

<Spends the entire thread acting exactly like that>

OMG so much. The mansplaining and failure to hear! I challenge him to read Philippa Gregory’s Normal Women which documents laws made to exclude women from professional guilds, set rates of pay to favour men, and shows how women’s productivity was branded as “valueless” even when it was clear that women’s work did have a value, a tradition that continues today.

Swipe left for the next trending thread