Cat versus human a&e

[catmummy22]

My cat was a bit poorly last night so I took her to the out of hours cat hospital. I called them at 8 pm and within 1 hour, I had booked the appointment, had her checked over and was back home.
My friend’s mother also took a turn for the worse last night. They drive to a&e at the same time as I went with my cat, but had to wait to be seen until 4 am. Suspected heart issue so quite serious.

I paid 350 pounds for my cat to be seen. I have pet insurance. I really wish I could pay £350 to be seen if I needed a&e too. I rather pay that than wait a. Ight to be seen.

My AIBU is in the different health care offered to pets versus humans in this country. As a human you can’t even pay your way to be seen in an emergency. Brits seem to think as long as it’s free, it’s good, but is it time to start thinking about charging in the NHS too? I think so!

I will be opening a cat shop in walton soon for accesories

And what does this have to do with the NHS?

In NZ it’s easier I think to move between public, private and somewhere in between, which I appreciate. Our public healthcare system is stretched, underfunded and understaffed.
It’s not a bad thing having the option of paying if you want to and are able to. For example, if my child breaks or injures something I can choose to take them to a provider where I have to pay much more of the costs or I can go to A&E and pay nothing. Rather than thinking of it as jumping the queue by paying, I think it actually helps as it reduces the queue for those who can’t pay if I go somewhere else. In an ideal world we wouldn’t need two system, but we do.

Went with a heart problem….quite serious….thats what 99% of people attending ED say! Lost count the number of times people turn up and book in with chest pain etc for it to turn out to be abdo pain, arm injury, foot injury etc. that’s what triage is there for….to help work out peoples actual presenting issues, start investigations like ecg, bloods….then you wait to be seen in priority of who is the sickest. The long wait to be seen would suggest your relative wasn’t critically unwell and was able to wait.

im also not sure how you can compare a cat population with the human population especially those cats requiring emergency care at 4am!

absolutely not the same at all.

The NHS is a disaster. Everyone I know is going private when possible. I feel for those who can’t afford it.

in fact the NHS is fucked.

im in Scotland so SNP’s fault here.

100% agree

As an English person living outside of the U.K. it is always interesting to me how much more British people who have never lived outside of the U.K. rate the NHS compared to those of us who have lived under other healthcare systems.

That isn't to say it is bad... it has some amazing points - most obviously and notably the fact that it is free. But when I'm back in the U.K. it often feels like it is treated as a theoretically perfect healthcare system that is only let down by the pesky government not giving it enough money...

My worry is that this over-confidence ends up obscuring the fact that it does have some significant problem (and advantages) when compared to the huge variety of other systems that need to be addressed.

I would absolutely say that one of the biggest issues the NHS has in comparison to other partially paid systems is the wait times. I'm always shocked when talking to my U.K. family and they tell me about appointments that lead to booking "tests" and procedures which they then have to wait weeks or months for. Where I am, we would have to pay a small amount for each test, but the tests are often same-day, or at works same-week.

Surely there is a middle ground? Where those who need it can get it free, and those who can pay, pay. I know this offends people on principle, but in practice from what I've seen outside of the U.K. it can raise standards for everyone.

Does it feel uncomfortable that some people pay more for better flights? Yes. But in doing so their fees subsidize the entire flight and enable such plentiful and cheap options that we all use.

If, hypothetically your choice is:

No paying, everyone waits 4 weeks...

Or

Rich pay = done tomorrow
The money is fueled into lowering free wait times
Non-paying = done in 2 weeks.

Yes you have created a 2 tier system, but as in most industries, the 2 tier system results in the lower tier actually getting a better deal than if it is all entirely equal.

(and this isn't even a good example, because we already have a 2 tier system, just at the moment all of the profits go into the hands of private medical companies rather than back into the NHS where they could be used to raise the free standard)

So yes, I think you are roughly right OP. But you won't be popular for it in the UK.

No system is perfect but the NHS does do well on many dimensions used to evaluate health systems. The Danish system is similar and works better because its funded better. Plus they are strict on where you go to seek care - if you are given an appointment by 111 equivalent to go to A&E you will actually be seen quickly. If you just turn up, outside of an absolute emergency, you'll wait ages

I'm biting on this because it's where the system is an absolute arse.

In 1990 I had graves disease, treated with a sub-total thyroidectomy so necame hypothyroid which is a condition exempt from prescription charges. That means for 30 years, I paid for no prescriptions at all, not for AB's, not for elective HRT, etc.

Then DH and I turmed 60, mid 60s now and DH is still working f/time, me still p/time, and both on very high incomes. Free prescriptions.

Personally I think the time for means testing has come. I am prepared to pay something extra but in return I am not prepared to be treated the same as everyone else because frankly, the NHS seems to treat everyone as though they are a piece of sh1t and that is the issue.

To be fair, in the last three years, mother has had a TAVI for acute aortic stenosis (and associated tests and follow-ups), £15k, a nasty bcc removed from her nose involving 70 stitches which is now perfect, medication for anxiety and consultations for tinnitis/dizziness which has caused slowing down and loss of confidence and recently an MRI in response to the development of a tremor to invesrigate Parkinsons. It isn't Parkinsons, it's a meningioma and there's evidence of a number of silent strokes. I've no idea what's been spent on her in the last three years. I do know there have been multiple cancelled apppointments and rudeness and kindness have been provided in equal measure. I also know the letter she was sent last week should never have been sent to an 89 year old lady without an initial appointment to break the news. All these symptoms were there pre the heart condition. 50 years ago, she'd just have faded and been none the wiser. She'd be dead now. Now she probably has two to three years of cognitive decline, a proud lady will end up wetting herself................. Quite separately, however, if she'd had a full once over before the heart surgery, she'd likely have said no and it's a shame the NHS doesn't treat the whole person. It's a shame the NHS can't say "Mrs x, we can offer a full body scan, it's £6k prior to your decisions. Many of us would pay it. It all seems a bit cart before horse and much more could be done to facilitate better decisions.

Now if mother were one of my cats, there would come a time when kindness rather than futility could be exercised and they woukd give me a hug and send a card.

Pets will get treated quicker, the number of pets treated daily would be massively lower than the number of humans treated daily

I took my daughter to a&e at 4am in the morning. We were seen within about 10 minutes. She was then referred to two different types of consultant. We had a call from one consultant the following day and an appointment the following week. We had another appointment with a different consultant two weeks later.

My son collapsed and was taken to a&e. He was seen immediately monitored and given an ECG. He was transferred to another hospital and had an ICD fitted the next day.

Honestly OP, if for you, the alternative would be going to a private hospital and paying lots of money to be seen in 10 minutes in a fancy consultation room, then crack on and find a private hospital where you can pay for that service.

For many of us though the alternative would be to seek whatever medical care was still affordable on the NHS, or to seek no medical care if all care was paid for, so yes we are lucky to be able to wait 10 hours on a trolley to get help and not die.

We have private medical care as sick of poor waiting times etc. But if we need emergency treatment we have to go to A&E.
I would prefer a us type system.

This is the problem. You think you are lucky to lie on a hospital trolley for 10 hours and possibly die. My DD works in a hospital in one of the less nicer part of London. The stories she tells. She is 23 and has to choose who lives and dies every day because it’s not enough staff to attend properly to all emergencies. All Brits harp on about is how it’s FREE while they pay medical insurance for their cats. Most people have this cover, but won’t pay for medical insurance. Why?

And while you’re being seen first because you have money, the people who don’t ….just die? Good to know you’re happy with that

Idea behind is nhs cannot be free. It needs to be funded better on all fronts and we cannot afford that everyone goes free. At the moment people
die anyway, but you know as long as it’s freee to die there….

Private hospitals aren't for A&E...
If you have a real emergency, you end up in the NHS with the same consultants anyway. Private healthcare is only useful to fast-track certain referrals basically but otherwise, the bottomline care for true emergencies is the same. It's not like in other countries where you do have two truly parallel systems.

As a human you can’t even pay your way to be seen in an emergency.

DD had an emergency appointment (last slot) a few weeks ago for something at our local private clinic. Our local NHS clinic said they couldn't see her until the following day, at the earliest.

The person who saw her was worried enough they drove behind our car, to A&E and then went and nabbed someone to draw bloods, get her admitted and through the system. We had blood results in an hour, which confirmed what the person who saw her had feared, and she was discharged the following morning with a clear treatment plan - all on the NHS, but as a result of our private clinic using their 'heft' to escalate the situation on site. The private appointment cost £120.

Pretty sure if we had gone to our local NHS clinic, they'd have just said 'go to A&E and wait' or if we had gone to A&E directly we'd have been sat there for hours, and that could have been seriously catastrophic.

Perhaps the NHS shouldn't be free. But equally, people shouldn't have to pay taxes to fund other peoples treatment/health and then have to go private themselves to get the urgent treatment they need. Just as the state school system should be good enough there is no need for private schools. People shouldn't have to pay twice because the state can't provide properly due to mismanagement.

I had my cat put to sleep when she was 16, with an aggressive cancer. My cat had a far better death than my father with cancer.

I pay pet insurance for my two current cats - it’s about £50 each pcm. So £1,200 pa, but at the end of the day, I know I could have them pts painlessly rather than pay a shedload in vet’s fees, if I thought they’d suffer too much.

DH and I would be looking at £5,000 pa for private medical insurance, which wouldn’t cover our pre-existing conditions or trips to A & E. We can’t afford it.

A&E are not full of emergency cases. It’s full of people who cannot access their GP. I can access my private GP within an hour. I book on my bupa app, speak to a GP and if I need to see someone in person this is arranged for me within 24-48 hours depending on urgency. Point is, private is already here.

This post is honestly the biggest let down, with it being MN I assumed someone had taken a cat to a human A&E. I feel cheated.

I am not in anyway arguing that the NHS can't be better. I am not arguing that it shouldn't be better. However please recognise that when you say "All Brits harp on about is how it’s FREE while they pay medical insurance for their cats. Most people have this cover, but won’t pay for medical insurance. Why?" You are NOT talking about "all Brits". I work with many people, who DON'T pay medical insurance for their cats. They don't have cats. They have kids and they often struggle to get food for their kids. I fully agree that we need to fund the NHS better, but please recognise that there are vast numbers of people who would simply NEVER be able to access health care without the NHS. It's not about saying the NHS doesn't need to improve, it's about saying that the bottom line is you can always sell a pet if money is that tight, you can't sell yourself or your kid.

Just going to point out that I’ve been to A&E and been seen within half an hour, I’ve also paid £400 to see an out of hours emergency vet and had to wait 3 hours - it all just depends on how busy they are at the time.

Also you’re comparing what is effectively an out of hours GP appointment to A&E, I’ve had out of hours GP appointments, they run them in my local hospital out of A&E, I was given an appointment time about an hour later than my phone call and was in and out within 20 minutes with a prescription.

Twice I’ve had pets admitted to the vet hospital for emergency procedures - neither time did I pay just the insurance excess, because their procedure and stay went a few thousand over their insurance.

And this that cannot afford it? Are they to receive shit healthcare while you pay your way to the front of the queue?
What happens to those people?
The existing system isn’t in a great place currently, admittedly. I have recent experience of an elderly relative waiting on a trolley in a corridor for many hours. I don’t believe the answer is in moving to a paid model however. The answer must surely be in improving what we have currently, process improvements, waste age being identified tidied and eliminated and more resources staff wise. Yes it will increase taxation or mean money is diverted from elsewhere but that’s far fairer than poor people being left to rot while rich people get great healthcare.

I was in A&E on Tuesday night. It was far from full of "drunks and time wasters". There were people there from every walk of life (as far as I could judge in my own very unwell state). Elderly people who'd fallen; one young man holding his side with tears running down his face; a teenage girl weeping with pain in a wheelchair; a glossy model-type woman with beautiful hair and eyelashes, repeatedly vomiting into a bowl. (And me, lying on the hard floor because if I sat up, I blacked out.) The problem is underfunding and lack of beds - they wanted to admit me but said I'd have to wait for a while, so as I'd perked up a lot after some IV stuff, I decided to go home.

I think you've swallowed the Reform/Tory Kool-Aid.