Worried about HR meeting

[Icarriedawatermelon1983]

My husband has been on a pip for a few months now and it ends very soon . He had a meeting with his boss on Friday and his boss has said he will be called to a HR meeting sometime this week ! He has had a lot of positive feedback from his boss during the pip , met all the targets required , and thought his boss has been happy with him. At Friday meeting he asked his boss if his HR meeting was a disciplinary , to which his boss said ‘ is shouldn’t be ‘ . He’s now thinking he maybe losing his job and is going to be offered a package to go . He’s worked there for 11 years . What does he need to do if this is the case . We are both so worried .

Can i assume the PIP and targets were all documented and the positive feedback also documented? If so there are no grounds for a disciplinary. When i have done these in the past I have ensured full documentation both positive or negative so when comes to the final sign off the employee is aware of outcome realistically before the meeting. They are within their rights to offer him a package but he is also within his rights to decline such package. Just ensure EVERYTHNG is documented. Good luck OP.

It would be usual in my office to have a meeting with HR after a PIP, whatever the outcome.

It would be surprising if he’s met targets etc. has it been documented among the way that he’s been meeting tarGets? I usually do an update whenever I meet my PIP staff, what has been achieved, if they’ve had /conpleted necessary training … those I’ve had to let go are fully aware if they’re not meeting targets to the point they often leave due to new jobs (which suits me).
id suggest your DH takes notes of what was said to him and when so at least he has it written down and can refer to it. Has he been I cited to take a person in with him?

In my workplace, an HR rep routinely sits in on the conversation at the end of a PIP.

Obviously I can’t promise you that it’ll be a good outcome because I don’t know the facts, but I really wouldn’t read much into the HR presence OP.

He has had no PIP staff . He has only had meetings with boss throughout the pip who has been verbally saying he is happy with DH work . He’s had no complaints at all . As for documents , DH has been emailing /saving emails to boss telling him of all his actions he has been doing throughout pip, results of his meetings with other SMT etc and his boss has seemed happy with it all . Boss never gives feedback through emails , no mentoring verbally or through emails . So what I’m trying to say is , DH has a lot of emails (evidence) that he has communicated well with boss but not vice versa . He’s worried because boss was cold with him last Friday . He asked if he needs anyone to sit in with him and boss said no . He asked if it is a disciplinary and boss said ‘there shouldn’t be’ . Surely if he’s been happy throughout and was happy last week then wouldn’t he of said something on the lines of ‘ no there’ll be no disciplinary and it’s just a meeting to sign you off pip ‘ Boss knows DH is wanting to stay and his job means a lot to him .

It's obviously a bit late now, but your DH should have been asking manager to document everything formally. Normally a PIP should have documented objective and targets, and progress should also be formally documented.

This may just be a routine end of PIP meeting, but your DH should be prepared in case it's not. Eg: here's objective A, here's evidence X, Y and Z confirming I met the objective.

If a package is offered, he doesn't have to accept right away. He can review it and negotiate it.

Is he in a Union?

I’m not sure about union or if HR has been documenting pip . They told him at the start that there was no hidden agenda and this has nothing to do with them now , it’s between Boss and DH . DH has been sending weekly reports to Boss saying he’s done xyz and he will be doing xyz the following week and always asking boss at the end of email , is there anything else you would like me to do or is there anything you would like me to prioritise? He never got a response from boss . DH seems to think that if the meeting could be a disaplinary, that HR has to write to inform him before hand that it could be ? Is that right ? If he is offered a package he will be totally blindsided by this . Neither of us are sleeping with worry

He’s just text me saying yes it’s documented that he’s on track to get signed off pip . This was before last week . And his monthly reports and passing of audits has all been documented. He says his boss is a total politician, never gives a straight answer , he finds this frustrating but obvs never shows it .

This is where being in a Union is helpful. They would have helped/advised during this process and come to the meeting with him.

Hopefully, if he's on track with PIP it should all be OK. If so, his manager is a bit of an arse for not responding to emails and being so vague about this week's meeting. He must know your DH is really worried.

I think he should also prepare, just in case it is a package. He doesn't want to be so blindsided that he agrees to anything straightaway. Just have a little 1 sentence script ready he can use if needed.

I think it's reasonable for your DH to email HR and boss to ask what the meeting is so he can prepare.

Your husband is correct. If the meeting was to be a disciplinary then he should have been informed in writing and advised of his right to be accompanied by a TU rep or colleague.
Your husband should contact ACAS who can explain his rights.

If he's met his targets and can evidence this i wouldn't worry.

Outcome will likely be that he's kept on the pip a bit longer to ensure improvement can be sustained, but not dismissed.

He should have been having regular meetings with written targets, they wouldnt have a leg to stand on in a tribunal. I dont think this will go to disciplinary but make sure he takes all the positive e-mails in with him in printed form (2 copies) and if they raise issues in the meeting that have not been discussed or documented previously he needs to ask why. He can refuse a warning if this is the case. Ask if he can make notes in the meeting or if HR are making notes he wants a copy and he should sign to agree or disagree to the meeting comments.. Hope all goes well but to be honest, if what you have described came to me i would have disputed it and they havent followed any process or any documentation. Best advise is for him to document everything. Hope all goes well.

He asked if he needs anyone to sit in with him and boss said no . He asked if it is a disciplinary and boss said ‘there shouldn’t be’ . Surely if he’s been happy throughout and was happy last week then wouldn’t he of said something on the lines of ‘ no there’ll be no disciplinary and it’s just a meeting to sign you off pip ‘

on the first point, the boss's response is really unsupportive. Actually your DH didn't need to ask if he needed someone to sit with, as it gives the boss the power to say no, rather he should have said that he is intending to bring someone with him eg colleague or union member.

the boss clearly doesn't want your DH to have any reassurance that his efforts to "get back to green" on his pip have been noted and appreciated. He doesn't sound like a decent leader at all.

even if your DH does get passed on the PIP, while that boss is in post he may continue to feel vulnerable to having his performance picked on. He may want to consider his long term career there (or maybe move areas or departments away from his current boss)

He finds his Boss very difficult but never shows it or ever speaks to anyone about him . Everyone complains about his boss but DH never does . He keeps cards to his chest and opinions of boss and colleagues to himself . He trusts only one person in there . He finds him frustrating because he’s a typical politician, vague answers , not very assertive, and struggles with difficult conversations. People get away with a lot under him . My DH ends up being given other departments audits to do (other manager is incompetent) and a lot of jobs that’s not on his job description because he’s the only one who can do them . When other managers leave , DH ends up having to do their role as well as his own because he’s the only one who can do them so this PIP came as a huge surprise . We have no clue why . It doesn’t make sense . I trust my husband’s honesty to me and he’s racked his brains . When his targets for the pip were set , he disputed two of them because they weren’t his responsibility/ department and the outcome / measures are out of his control , so his Boss agreed and documented the outcome is not on Husband .This is a large company with different divisions in different countries. Does this sound like he’s been set up for failure or genuine . It’s all abit odd . On the face of it , husband gets on with his boss . DH says he’s a nice man personally .

Unfortunately if you feel set up to fail, then you're in the wrong job. Because it means your employer doesn't share your idea of what a desirable employee looks like. No employer sets up to fail the staff they value and believe to be a good fit for the company, because it makes no sense.
Whatever the outcome here, your husband would he best advised to look for another job. Because the only time a PIP is positive is when the employee agrees that it was needed and that they had training needs, or had allowed their performance to drop.
Where the employee believes it was undeserved, that they worked to a high level already, it shows there's a mismatch between their idea of good and the employers. And that's never a healthy place to be.

I forgot to say , his boss has messed up a few times and my DH has got him out of the crap often by taking on a serious task (not his department) and passed important audits and saved his arse . Then he ends up on a pip . Totally bonkers ! We have a large mortgage , no debt and a young son and my job won’t cover a third of our bills so we are so worried . And he’s very hurt .

Yes I think you have a point here . He needs to look elsewhere I think . It’s just so hard as it’s just so confusing . Also I’ve just remembered, his boss said there was no point of DH applying for a higher job when one had become available because DH wouldn’t get it . Mmm

@Icarriedawatermelon1983 your DH has prepared well for the meeting and done everything that has been asked of him, so they cannot just get rid of him.

I would recommend he takes an audio recording of the meeting, just to cover his back if he needs to recall any details. He doesn't have to tell them he is recording (so cannot then use the recording as evidence against them) but he can use it to write a summary of what was said in the meeting, just in case there was any discrepancies in what they actually said and what they then say later.

Hope it goes well for him.

Isn’t that against the law , recording without permission. They could maybe find out . I think he should take his colleague in with him who sat in with him at the first few meetings .

You are recorded without your permission all the time. CCTV with audio etc...

If you intend to use an audio recording or video as evidence against someone, then you would need to inform the person you are recording them. If you want to use the recording for personal use to summarise the meeting as it is difficult to remember full details when under stress, then that's fine.

Taking a colleague in would be sensible.

I work in HR and the crux of what may happen will depend on his service.
Does he have less than two years service? Let me know and I can give you the possible scenarios.

There was mention of emails

Any emails, on work's servers, can be disappeared.

In this sort of situation it's sensible to BCC yourself into anything sent out to your own personal account.

Similarly forward any incoming emails to the account too.

My guess is that boss fucked up, blamed your DH so put him on a PIP to cover his own arse. Is that possible?

I would also ensure your DH after ANY verbal meeting with boss follows up on email with notes and actions of what was discussed and agreed, with a preface saying please come back if any of this is incorrect.

Yikes op, you’re writing about how he’s so good he’s doing other people’s jobs, saving his boss etc, yet the man is on a pip and having to be micro managed and communicate he’s got tasks done. The two things don’t tie together,