Worried about HR meeting

[Icarriedawatermelon1983]

My husband has been on a pip for a few months now and it ends very soon . He had a meeting with his boss on Friday and his boss has said he will be called to a HR meeting sometime this week ! He has had a lot of positive feedback from his boss during the pip , met all the targets required , and thought his boss has been happy with him. At Friday meeting he asked his boss if his HR meeting was a disciplinary , to which his boss said ‘ is shouldn’t be ‘ . He’s now thinking he maybe losing his job and is going to be offered a package to go . He’s worked there for 11 years . What does he need to do if this is the case . We are both so worried .

Surely if the meeting is a disciplinary he should be made aware of this so he can gather all his evidence and take a witness of his choosing into the meeting? If he gets in there and it starts taking an unpleasant turn I am sure he could halt the meeting until he has had time to prepare.

I was once blindsided like that and refused to sign the form at the end of it. They didnt pursue it though as the place was closing down and they actually offered me a job elsewhere! ( needless to say I politely told them to stuff it)

My thinking too.

But why does he have a pip and improvement measures that he needs ro confirm he has met, if he does multiple people’s jobs inc saving his bad boss. If he’s saying he is meeting rhe improvement measures it says he was not perfoming to standard, and normally before a pip there is multiple discussions.

so something is adrift in your understanding,and likely what he is telling you. Get to the bottom of that and you may get to the bottom of why there is an hr meeting.

I did wonder. It seems strange to get to 11 years employment and suddenly out of the blue get put on a PIP. It depends where the company sees his boss' employment going and if they have any clue he isn't doing well. His boss might be crappy and putting your DH out as the fall guy, but that is really hard to prove. I'd guess there is probably a termination/settlement route about to happen for your DH. As someone said above, tell him to agree to nothing in the meeting if it turns into a termination discussion. Tell them to say something non committal of "I will review and respond in due course". Negotiate a fair settlement if it comes to it, so start high with asks. More so, I'd tell your DH to source references in the company and start job searching ASAP. It sounds like a toxic place in general if working for someone like his new boss, a new job would probably be a breath of fresh air.

The bloke I put on a PIP did. I put him on it to frighten him into either pulling his weight or fucking him off out the door. He was more than very capable of doing the job.

It frightened him and he pulled his weight and was fine after that.

He did admit to me that it scared him shitless, as he was convinced I was going to find reasons to get rid of him, which he knew I would if he buggered around again.

Rubbish.
Ive had staff on PIPs and provided they reach the targets they stay.

Yes it makes no sense, if he’s the fall guy then what will happen when h3 goes, and he’s admitting there is performance measures, and he has to email each week to say he’s done his tasks, which is standard pip, it’s micro management and you break it down and get rhe employee to confirm they’ve done it.

no one puts someone as excellent as he says he is, on a pip, how would you even create rhe improvement measures.

so he is telling the op how brilliant he is. Saving the department, doing multiple people’s jobs. How shit his boss is, when in reality it would seem he is under performing and has been for some time. Hence the pip.

so the op needs to get gently past his ego and embarassment and get to the truth of it, and this will give her a fair idea of why there is now an hr meeting.

the fact he says the manager went cold for the last two weeks, could indicate he’s not been performing on the pip either and he’s preparing the op for what may happen. The fact he even asked if it was disciplinary says he felt it might be,

it won’t be termination, but I’d assume this is a serious conversation about his lack of performance.

I dont have experience of the PIP process so can't advise there but something that jumped out to me was the forwarding of the emails to a personal email address, that is a big no no in my company so I'd be very wary of doing that or saving anything company related on personal devices. Better to print out and have hard copies then there will be no dispute over that.

I really don't understand how your husband can be on a PIP without knowing what the failings were to lead up to that point. Is this a tiny company with no HR? HR have policies in place for all parts of employment - including documented procedures for PIP's.

He must know as he knows the improvement measures, and you put those where the failings were, that’s standard pip,

as said it is all highly illogical, I think maybe it’s bravado, he wouldn’t be the first man who isn’t performing who tells his wife how he’s in there saving everyone’s backside and carrying the load. We have had a couple of them and you can tell from the way the wife’s talk at social events they think their husband is some star when actually he’s a low performer.

I wouldn't worry based on a quote like that. People do come back from a PIP. However, the cases where this happens tend to be where the person wasn't meeting performance because it was unclear what was expected, or they needed some training, or support with time management or prioritisation, or they were for whatever reason performing below their capability. The last can be due to slacking off, or a period of poor health/personal issues.
Your husband's future in the job after the plan will really depend on whether he can see they were justified, and that he does need to work differently in future, and feels he can sustain working in the new way.
If he still has no idea what he did wrong, or feels his targets are unrealistic and he only met them through excessive work in order to 'pass' the plan, and worries how he will keep it up in future, then it doesn't look as good.
Has he said anything about how the plan has changed things for him? What has he learned or done differently that his performance is now adequate in their eyes? And can he keep it up?

This is how he feels . He thinks it’s all bollocks too and his manager hasn’t got a clue . But he can’t stop worrying because he really wants to stay there and worries he won’t get a better job

Why . They’d never know he forwarded his own email to himself he can then later print off if needed ?

I have had people on PIPs that have successfully completed them, made improvements and carried on working for me. They are used as a last resort for many employers, hence why often people leave because they’re just not very good.
If your DH has evidence showing he’s been proactive and can document the meetings he’s had each week with his boss to confirm that he was not made aware of any issues then I don’t think they can dismiss without more warning, there will be a formal invitation for a disciplinary meeting and he would be offered the opportunity to bring someone in with him.
Try not to worry, perhaps boss was just having a bad day when he was being cold.

I work for a large multinational and a manager friend told me PIPs are quite common and you don't hear about most of them. People definitely come back from them but they can also be a route out if there's someone who is not making any effort or is unsuitable for the job. If your DH has been getting good feedback then I'd be inclined to be positive and try not to worry.
Fingers crossed for you.

There could be some truth in this.

To be quite honest I’d be slightly concerned that your DH is so worried about losing his job and getting another one, he seems fairly young too. You should never get too complacent in jobs. Always good to know you can survive outside of your current role and company.

His IT can easily see that he has forwarded emails to his personal address.

The way round this is to log on to personal email from work computer, upload email as attachment, but save in draft.

Is there a union rep/legal advisor you can ask?

I think there's a few things here that stand out

1. Are you 100% confident your dh tells you the truth/even if he is telling you the truth, it's his version of the truth. It seems unlikely that if he's regularly saving his boss from drama, that the same boss would be managing him out? That wouldn't be in his interests at all. If so, when your dh says that he has hit all his targets, has he definitely definitely hit them all? I've had people move to the next stage based on just one area of a plan/one set of targets missed because it's an essential bit of the job. To save you from being blindsided, be prepared for some of the info he has told you not to be the gods honest truth.
2. If dh is correct and he has hit every target, its well documented, the feedback is exclusively positive and all of this is written down, then he should have nothing to worry about at all. It generally is normal for people to have pips and then improve and move forward. However, it's strange to me that HR would be involved if all was well. I think youre right to be nervous. He needa to understand which stage of rhe performance process he is at? Has he been formally invited to a meeting, told the informal pip isnt working and formally moved onto the process, or is this the informal pip and the meeting might be to put him into the formal stage. Possibly the meeting is because they will offer him a settlement e.g. the pip has been achieved but they still feel it's not the job for him? If so, he should calmly investigate their offer. After 11 years it should be fairly good. Ask relevant questions (would any bonus be included, what dates are they thinking, what's his notice period, does the offer include the notice period etc) and then take it away and ask for a week to think about it. Also he should negotiate, ask for more money, this years bonus etc. He can refuse an SA of course, but then he's working there knowing they want rid of him, which is uncomfortable.
3. He should look elsewhere anyway. He doesn't like his boss, he feels he is set up to fail, despite thinking he does a good job he has ended up on pip despite being in the company for 11 years and therefore (I'm assuming) being seen and known as experienced. None of these things are shouting job satisfaction to me.

As an aside, he definitely should stop forwarding emails to his personal email if they contain any company information. They will be able to see his IT history and if he's sent company info/internal info to a personal address then it is no longer protected by the companies IT security, he should check his IT security policy just in case but in certain organisations they have a blanket ban, in others it'd just be confidential documents or protected info like HR data. Normally it's tightest in companies where info is really important (this is how emails get "leaked" or "hacked" government officials can get in massive trouble for it - as an aside I think hillary Clinton got undone for this!) If he wants the emails just print at work and take paper copies home!?

Every single email that is sent can be traced, if deemed necessary. It will depend on the companies IT policies whether work email can ever be used for personal reasons.

Just sending solidarity as my OH in same position, no grounds for him to have been on it in the first place and nothing has been done by the book. He feels like he is being pushed out and seems nothing he can do to stop it. Neither of us are sleeping and the added stress on top of everything else is just too much right now..I don't honestly know how he is still going into work but says he has to. I hope outcome is positive for your husband xx

There is no way he is not telling me the truth . I can’t say to much detail as it would be too outing but Thankyou for all your information and help . I think we ll just have to wait n see what happens first but yes I think he should look elsewhere. He is only in his late 30s so maybe a change is for the best .