Am I being selfish?

[Sophie26940]

Is it selfish to fly long haul with 2 year old? I’m so embarrassed I got shouted at on the plane by two men for my son shouting during dinner and banging forks. They said they want their money back, they tried to move seats, what was I thinking bringing child on the plane, I’m selfish, why is it crying etc. I understand why they’re annoyed but my child wasn’t crying much, just upset in his sleep. The staff were horrible to me so I had no support. Is it deemed selfish to bring a child on a 12 hour night flight? Dreading the flight back now.

It really depends on how much you tried to quiet him.

If you simply ignored his banging then yes selfish. If you did everything possible then not

I will be honest I think going business or first is selfish. Not in economy, though, children sometimes have to travel and can't help being a bit annoying. It would probably be better for everyone if there were a child friendly area but then air travel is miserable by many measures.

He has as much right to be on the flight as anyone.

They might have found him annoying, but that’s life.

Those men are wankers. The staff should have defended you. There are children on every flight I get. I never understand people throwing dirty looks to the mother of a crying baby or child - do they honestly think the mother does not want the baby to stop crying more than anyone? But I've never seen people shout at the mother, it's shocking. I'd formally complain to the airline that the staff didn't help you.

Complain to the airline if staff were horrible

I would pay more for a child free flight but unitl then I suck it up. You arent selfish, it's just facts that kids will be on planes.

This. Long haul flying is usually unpleasant unless you have money to throw at it. Having an upset small child in your vicinity worsens it, but c’est la vie. So does someone with BO.

No, I'd not say so. As long as you were being considerate and trying to entertain you child/ stop the fork banging.

No you’re not selfish, we flew long haul when our children were small and I often did it alone to visit family. I wouldn’t have allowed banging, being overly loud etc. We flew business or first and I was always aware of disapproving looks. As far as I was concerned we paid to travel just like everyone else but it was stressful trying not to impede on the comfort of other passengers, I’d have done the same in any class of travel.

Edited to add I’ve witnessed some awful behaviour on planes from adults (mostly alcohol induced).

Unless it’s your only way to see close family I don’t really understand why anyone would want to drag a 2 year old on a plane for 12 hours. It’s not remotely enjoyable for the child.
How unreasonable it all was really depends on how badly your child behaved. Some people are incredibly dramatic and awful to mothers, I had an older woman make a scene and ask to be moved the second she seen I was assigned a seat next to her with a baby. On the flip side I’ve been on some flights with awful children.
In general I’m on the ‘children will be in public places so get over it’ camp but a 12 hour flight is asking for a difficult time.

As long as you were trying to quiet him down, you are not selfish.
If I’d been a passenger on that flight, I’d have been far more bothered by two adult men shouting than a toddler.

What kind of support were you expecting from the staff? They have a job to do and helping you manage your child is not their role.

I do think flying long haul with a child is selfish. At times, it is a necessity so it is understandable. I think people also are more forgiving if they see you making every effort to quieten/lessen the impact on others.

I also think some mutual understanding could go a long way. Yes, the men could have behaved better toward you…but overnight flights in economy when people are tired, trying to sleep, stressed, possibly anxious about flying and then dealing with an unexpected addition of a loud toddler may have tipped them over the edge. No one is their best self on a long haul overnight economy flight.

goz
Unless it’s your only way to see close family I don’t really understand why anyone would want to drag a 2 year old on a plane for 12 hours. It’s not remotely enjoyable for the child.

I very much agree with this.
I don't think babies and toddlers get much out of a long haul holiday.
In our case, we just took cottage holidays in the UK until DC were 4 and 5. They were up and about from 6am so it was a lot easier to manage early breakfast etc than it would have been in a hotel.
I know some people wouldn't want to go without a holiday in the sun for 5 years, but we're not overly bothered by the weather.
When they were 5 & 6 we tried a "test flight" to Italy which went well, so the following year we took them to visit family in Australia. By then, they were old enough to be civilised and still small enough to sleep comfortably in economy seats.
I realise that's very case specific and with a bigger gap between DC may not have worked so well.
I certainly wouldn't have taken a 2 year old on a long haul flight without a pressing reason (mainly for my own peace of mind) - maybe you have one though, OP.

Eta I'm surprised the flight staff were unpleasant. I've very rarely found that the case and it's only ever been one person, not all of them.
Maybe your DS was being a bit more disruptive than you were aware of if they all seemed to take against you.

Children never annoy me parents who don't parent them do so it depends what you where doing. If you child was playing up for 12 hours and all you did was repeatedly say Leo don't do that Leo stop it but did absolutely nothing to stop him then id be pissed of. When everyone around you knows your child's name thats not a good thing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a child being on a long haul flight but I would expect the parents to pre plan lots of activities and snacks. And pretty much giving the child your full attention for the whole flight.

So the passenger shouted like a toddler at you and somehow thinks that’s acceptable and a child banging a fork isn’t? There’s something seriously wrong with this world. If he wanted silence he should have paid for a private jet or just not flown.

Don’t stress yourself about your return flight. I would also complain to the airline yourself about the unhelpful staff and them allowing a grown man to aggressively shout at you.

It really depends on your actions. As long as you were doing everything in your power to minimise disruption then your child has every right to be there. People are entitled to a child free life but not a child free world.

I think it depends on how prepared you are, we’ve always flown since the kids were little and never had a problem, we took snacks, books, iPad, games, colouring, blankets etc, I basically planned the whole flight out with what they’d do 😂
Ive been on plenty of short haul flights that were horrific due to parents not bringing a damn thing! One mum had clearly not brought a single bit of entertainment for her toddler, but quickly turned HER iPad on, ordered herself champagne, and spilt it all over the bored child who then cried non stop for an hour 🫣 literally ignored him the whole time drinking and watching a film.

If you’ve tried, and your child cries because of tiredness/nervous, whatever, not selfish, if you didn’t bother to plan at all yes it’s selfish.

I’d expect support from staff if two adult passengers were shouting at me. If I was another passenger on the plane I’d expect staff to step in and tell the men they can’t yell at other passengers.

As with anything if you did your best to be considerate to others (which includes somewhat attempting to keep him quiet and contained everything though it's hard) then no, not selfish

If people are full blown he has a right to be here and act however he wants what can I do, then yeah selfish. But that's true if you're in the supermarket or in a park - it's not plane-specific.

If you were trying to keep him quiet then you were absolutely not being selfish.

By far the worst co passengers I have had on flights have been drunk adults. I would take a noisy child any day over a volatile, pissed adult.

I have zero issue on planes with children who are genuinely upset or having a hard time and I can see the parents are trying their best.

I have a huge issue with children who are just blatantly not being parented correctly and are allowed to get away with murder.

If they shouted at you (was it really "shouting"?) because your son was shouting and banging his fork during dinner, what were you doing to quieten him down? It seems unlikely that they would have got annoyed at one shout and one fork bang (if your child is banging their fork on the table, then you take it away).

I would imagine it was after hours of biting their tongue

Most people are getting on long haul flights for 'selfish' reasons. Theirs are no better than yours. Do your best to keep your kid quiet and don't give it any more of your brain space.

How quickly did you remove the fork @Sophie26940?

That seems an obvious question.