To think John Davidson and BAFTA owe an apology

[notaurewhatusername]

I have sympathy for anyone with Tourette’s. I genuinely do. It’s a difficult condition and I’m not for one second suggesting John Davidson is a bad person or that he chose to say what he said. But sympathy for a condition doesn’t mean the impact on others gets ignored.

Intent matters but so does impact. If I accidentally stand on someone’s foot I still say sorry, even though I didn’t mean to do it. “I didn’t mean it” and “I acknowledge I hurt you” are not mutually exclusive. I wouldn’t get annoyed at the suggestion of apologising simply because I didn’t mean it, so why is this different? Especially as it was a public stage in front of millions. I don’t expect John to apologise every day in normal interactions, but at such a public forum - he should. Michael B Jordan looked visibly devastated. It was so sad.

When he saw two Black men and the n-word came out — not H**ky at the white hosts for example, not some other neutral word, the n-word directed at Black people in the room — that caused real harm to real people. Tourette’s tics are shaped by what the brain reaches for as most “forbidden” in a given moment, and what it reached for when he saw two Black men was a racial slur aimed at them. That raises really uncomfortable questions about unconscious bias that most people would rather sidestep entirely.

It doesn’t make him a conscious racist. But it does make it a conversation worth having, because our unconscious associations don’t come from nowhere — they’re shaped by everything we’ve absorbed over a lifetime. That connotation being the first place his brain went is something that deserves acknowledgement, not just a pass because of the diagnosis. And as a POC, I have to be honest — this is heartbreaking. Not just the incident itself but what it represents.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to explain to white friends and colleagues that certain spaces feel uncomfortable, that you notice the stares, that you carry this constant low level awareness of how you might be being perceived. And so often the response is “you’re imagining it” or “you’re being too sensitive.” You get gaslit into doubting your own lived experience. Well — moments like this are exactly why it isn’t in our heads. This is the reality POC navigate every single day. Always on alert. Always doing that mental calculation of whether someone is judging you for the colour of your skin. That emotional labour is exhausting and largely invisible to people who’ve never had to carry it.

John thanking the audience for their “understanding” puts the burden entirely on those who were hurt to just get over it. That’s not the same as acknowledging the pain caused. AIBU to think a bit more than “thanks for understanding” was needed here — from both of them?

What makes zero sense? That Scottish people pronounce their Rs? Have you ever met a Scottish person?

I doubt most Scottish people know there is a “more” offensive way to pronounce the n word. But Scottish people do pronounce their Ra. What aren’t you getting? For example they pronounce the R in pepper and in worm. So why wouldn’t they pronounce it in the n word?

What doesn't make sense is you trying to argue that someone's Tourette's was trying to say n---a because...the Tourette's isn't racist?

In the context of disability - yes

People who work with those with certain disabilities will often get punched, kicked, headbutted, bitten, slapped, smacked, grabbed... they get horrendous bruises but they don't blame the person

"Autism isn’t Tourette’s. Stop speaking about disabled people like they are all the same"

So hang on...are you saying that an autistic person who has a panic attack or meltdown because of their autism is responsible for their behaviour, and should apologise?

Well, for starters, people who work with those people are literally trained and paid to deal with it, and choose to do so on a daily basis.

And wow. I didn't say blame the person, I said 'feeling upset'. So if someone gets punched in the face by a disabled person, they're somehow the one at fault if they feel upset?

That's a wild take. I presume you can extrapolate that to sexual assault, and all sorts. If a person has a disability and can't help it, then it's your fault if you feel upset!

I don’t like to embarrass people @NotThisAgain1987 but I found a paywall remover - it’s a good job you know about those adult education courses around sharpening IT skills and reading, I suggest you book one, pronto.

Wha you provided me was NOT in fact “ a whole piece [John Davidson wrote] on how devastating it was to offend the queen who was just a very wealthy old bint” as you claimed

Where did you get that idea from?? Or have you just plain old lied on purpose?

No I don’t actually - but nor do I think it’s acceptable for someone to think the two conditions are the same

Eh?

Im saying he pronounced the R because he Scottish - not because his Tourette’s picked that pronunciation out as a more offensive word. Tourette’s isn’t actually a racist entity FYI

@notaurewhatusername

"An apology is saying I see that you were hurt and I’m sorry for that"

I've read, I think, at least three threads on this matter, and the sheer number of people who cannot seem to grasp this simple concept is shocking to me. I was brought up to believe that if you hurt somebody, albeit intentionally, then you say sorry, because that is just good manners. To me, there's a distinct lack of grace in all the howling of "WHY SHOULD HE APOLOGISE BECAUSE DISABLED!!!"
I'm disabled myself now, and if I accidentally ran over someone's foot with my wheelchair, then of course I would apologise, because that's what you do, right? That so many here are struggling with that is an eye opener to me.

I’ve worked with disabled people and that’s not at all how violence is handled. You so obviously know nothing.

But in any case, JD was not violent and there are no victims in this case.

Right, so then why doesn't it just yell 'apple'?

Do you have an uncontrolled symptom whereby you constantly run over peoples feet?
If not, then you can’t make the comparison.

Do you apologise for simply being in a wheelchair? Because that is the correct analogy here

JFC REALLY.

Have you not bothered to research one bit about Tourette’s and coprolalia?

Im also gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume when you say “it” you mean Tourette’s and not John himself?

I know that's not how it's handled!! That's why I'm expressing total disbelief over it.

Take that lack of knowledge up with the poster I was replying to, who apparently thinks that is how it's handled.

Because he carnt control what he says. How has this not gone into your brain yet?

I think that posters means when workers are assaulted by a disabled person they accept that the intent and control is not the same as being assaulted by someone who is not disabled.

I can’t articulate it like the OP but I wonder how people would feel if their young daughter was involuntarily called a c*t or whre on a very public stage, or their disabled child called a r**tard. I can’t believe how many people are suggesting the OP doesn’t understand the meaning of involuntary, or is somehow being discriminatory themselves (the irony).

It disheartens me so much to see people on here dismissing the very valid emotional response of anyone, especially people of colour, to that awful word. Just because he didn’t mean it, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t painful.

I agree with the OP that part of the hurt it causes may be due to the reason this word is the one that manifested in that moment, it’s because it’s a reflection of society- the same as a tic causing someone to shout whre or cnt or f*g is a reflection of societal misogyny or homophobia- not in the person with Tourette’s, it’s not their fault at all, but almost like some awful cross they have to bear.

I’m sorry OP, I’m not a POC but I can understand the points you’re making. It’s very odd to me how people are reacting, suggesting you don’t understand he didn’t mean it, or suggesting that people who found it hurtful or offensive should let that wash over them (and demonstrate much more understanding and compassion than they are being shown right now).

Yes, I have, which is why I'm aware that the tic would make him yell the most offensive thing possible. So the racial slur n---r in this case.

You're the one who has been arguing that his Tourette's apparently didn't mean to do that, because the Tourette's itself isn't racist.

Except what that poster actually said is "In the context of disability - yes" in response to: "Hmm, so if someone punches me in the face, I'm responsible for feeling upset...?"

It seems pretty clear to me.

Tell that to the poster I'm replying to, who said that his Tourette's meant to say n*!@A and not n$#@R because his Tourette's isn't racist, just hampered by his accent.

I mean, it makes no sense.

Clearly his involuntary tic was the most offensive racial slur possible, because that's what the condition tends to do, right? So why is pp trying to argue about accents?

If my child was called a name by a person with Tourette’s (and my DS wears hearing aids and a yarmulke so could be a target) I’d explain how they didn’t mean it and to just ignore it, this person can’t help it and think how horrific their life must be. They know what Tourette’s is so wouldn’t need explaining, but if they didn’t, I would.

There’s not always retribution, apologies or atonement to be had in life and marginalised people know this.

People are reacting to the fact the OP thinks someone needs to apologise for being disabled, not that they think POCs feelings aren’t valid

Tourette’s isn’t racist, correct.

Im arguing he pronounced the R because he Scottish and that’s what Scottish people do. Not because it’s a “worse” pronunciation. Generally Tourette’s suffers speak in their own accent when ticcing

Im confused as to why you’re confused. Have you never heard a Scottish person speak?

No, and no. I wasn't comparing myself to JD, because disabled people aren't a homogeneous mass. However, if I hurt somebody , I would say sorry.
That's all I was saying.

I didn’t say his Tourette’s meant to say it with an A. Don’t make things up please.
I said he said it with an R because he’s Scottish

Genuinely baffled at your confusion. YOU brought up the issue of Hard Rs. I’ve explained why he used a hard R

https://x.com/i/status/2026217991805735006

I've posted this short clip on another thread here is is again. It's John and some fellow sufferers, from a documentary a few years ago. They swear, shout offensive words, racial and homophobic slurs. None of it is intentional. It is their disability.
It's literally a couple of minutes. Please watch and learn.

Also please remember that the person being pilloried by the likes of Jamie Foxx is a working class janitor who was forced to leave school with no qualifications, has been beaten with a crowbar and arrested, due to his condition. He had no power or privilege. I that context the pile-on has been obscene.

If anyone deserves a bit of grace, it's John.
A friend of mine went to school with him and still lived in the same town as him and I've never seen him so angry as yesterday due to John's treatment.