To think ROSPA should make it clear that Older Driver Assessments might result in a loss of license?

[sprucinitup]

An elderly relative was recently diagnosed with a medical condition which does not result in automatic loss of driving license, but nevertheless, his GP recommended that he undertake a free Older Driver Assessment, saying he thought it might be "helpful". He gave my relative a leaflet which also described the assessment as "helpful". My relative booked an assessment. It consisted of online cognitive tests and a practical driving assessment. At the end of this, my relative was told he was driving too hesitantly. But rather than offering the "re-training" mentioned in the leaflet, they removed his license.

He is understandably very upset about this, because he wasn't warned that loss of license was a potential outcome.

This is the website: https://www.olderdrivers.org.uk/driver-assessment/ . If there is info on there about loss of license then it must be well buried because I can't see it.

He is very responsible, and will of course accept the decision, but aibu to think that there should be a more transparent process, so that elderly folk don't feel tricked into giving up their license by stealth?

I haven't read anything to indicate that its cognitive...although it might explain what the OP was told vs what was actually said..... There are many other diagnoses which can give problems with driving and other things and not all of them can be solved with adaptations.

You only have their word for how it was presented.

Also in my job I advise people they can no longer drive and must contact the DVLA to ekt them know. But I rarely contact the DVLA. sounds like ROSPA are similar. The only times we contact the DVLA ourselves is if we are confident the person isn't going to contact them themselves as they are in denial about the importance. Sounds like ROSPA are the same therefore he must be very unsafe and very deeply in denial.

How old is he and what's the medical condition? You sewm to not want to answer which is is suspect because it makes it clear he's likely to be unsafe to drive

Bloody hell.

Ive looked at a couple of the self-referal forms and they have the following:

Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA)

I give my consent for Driving and Mobility Centre to contact the DVLA for clarification about my driving status and / or to inform them of the outcome of the assessment.

This is NOT hidden and you have to sign directly underneath to say that you agree.

The fact that you can cite worse drivers hardly makes it ok for unsafe drivers to be allowed on the roads. A car can be a dangerous thing.

You say yourself that if the GP/website/leaflet had been more upfront, others may not take the advice to sit the test.

The upset that your relative feels by not being able to drive unsafely any more, is nothing compared to the upset that would be caused by unsafe drivers causing accidents.

I'm sorry, I've tried to understand your point, but I can't. Keeping unsafe drivers off the road is a good thing, your relatives upset will pass.

The problem is the “trickery” you describe is sometimes the only way to get a dangerous driver off the road.
An elderly relative ran me over around 7 years ago. Had no idea they had even hit anything, let alone that they had hit a 5ft 4, 18stone woman in a bright hi vis pink vest. Children frequently run around the area where I was hit, but they had no clue whatsoever. Luckily very little damage was done but they still refuse to give up their license. Sadly without a great deal of “trickery” this person will still be allowed to drive, very dangerously until someone actually dies. That’s why the trickery exists - to stop dangerous drivers who think they can always “win”.

Also OP with the best of intentions women of the much older generation in very traditional relationships who have always replied on their husband driving while they manage things like medical appts tend to be incredulous, indignant and angry when informed their husbands can no longer drive. It's likely they are both unreliable witnesses. Rather than being angry at the approach a better way to react is to be supportive but firm that it is the right decision. Will this impact you and your husband now having to drive them around more?

Honestly I'd rather deliver end of life news than loss of licence news, it's a horrible loss for people especially the elderly as it's often a big big 'last' to get through. I feel for them I really do. I spend a lot of time with people when we give this news. I agonise later and people stay in my thoughts but it doesn't change it

But then they’d still be driving. Endangering themselves and all of us.

In this very specific instance I believe that the ends justifies the means and I don’t care if people think the process is underhand. I believe that the safety of road users - including pedestrians - is paramount. Your relative might be honest and humble OP, and might have gone to the assessment even if they’d known the potential outcome, but many many others wouldn’t and don’t (there have been multiple threads on here over the years).

Telling people they may lose their licence would be fine if testing was mandatory but it’s not, a lot of people would refuse to take the test if they thought they could lose their license.

I agree with you that testing should be mandatory.

Three weeks ago i was waiting at a bus stop for a bus that never turned up. Its only a once an hour service as it is. I had an appointment in town so i had to run back to my flat and call a taxi. It was pissing with rain and id been soaked for long enough. I ended up being late for said appointment. A week later i asked a bus driver what happened to said bus at said time The reply? oh i was off sick and they didnt bother to replace me

You want ppl to give up their cars? You are going to have to do a lot fucking better than this.

Oh and its a good job it wasnt a GP appointment. We all know how hard they are to get

That isn't RoSPA. RoSPA can help you to find a Driving and Mobility Centre but they are separate organisations and usually only needed or suggested if there is SERIOUS concern about the person't ability or they need assessment for driving adaptations. I actually mentioned then at the beginning of this thread. They have clinicians onsite. They also say this.
"Please remember all outcomes are professional recommendations, only the DVLA have the authority to withdraw or re-instate licence entitlement."
So once again if the gentleman was advises to go there, not the whole story from the OP

My FIL refused to book a driving assessment when the hospital Dr told him he should.
His GP signed him off as fit to drive. He is still driving now. He's a danger to himself and everyone.
I really wish there was a way to stop him from driving.

Contact the DVLA in writing, it may get him assessed

Ah, ok, thanks. Has the OP said WHO conducted the test? Would that rest center have had a similar note in the booking form?

This is such a dangerous issue. My DM had to take the keys off my DSF and drive the car herself wherever they went. He had become dangerous, but he had done quite a lot of dangerous driving before she managed to stop him. He passed all medical cognitive tests, but he was not 100% there mentally, so nothing was done by any authorities. When it came to be dangerous for DM to be driving, she was 100% mentally sharp and didn't drive any more. Neither of them ever turned their driving licences over back to the DVLA though. I suppose that feels horrible. My DM still has an active driving licence even though she isn't physically capable of getting to the car and will never be again.

His GP can't sign him off as for to drive by the way. He's just told you that.

This

He must have been pretty unsafe OP. My DF was deemed fit to drive at 79 despite cataracts and a complete inability to stand unaided.

She keeps saying rospa but I have my doubts

Standing unaided isnt an issue You do realise there are disabled ppl that drive right?

Another thought OP, in our dept it'd be pretty unusual to refer someone to a driving skills test, the only time we advise them is if they are clearly not meeting fit to drive to standards but they themselves continue to disagree and they are a point oescalatoon they can use. I really don't think the story you've been told is accurate but I appreciate you've taken it at face value

This is the leaflet the GP gave him: https://www.olderdrivers.org.uk/media/1007/leaflet-male.pdf
It says: "A driving assessment can help you to identify how your driving is changing and what you can do to help you to continue driving safely for as longer ...These assessments are not a test, but an independent, friendly check of your strengths and weaknesses behind the wheel to help you to increase your ability and confidence on today’s roads"

There is a paragraph on recognising when it is time to retire from driving, which implies the assessment might help you make that decision, but what it should say is that they may make that decision for you by advising the DVLA that you are unfit to drive.

Fwiw, his health condition is not one that is reportable to the DVLA.

p.s. Checking out now ... it's bedtime.

So he IS over 85 then? And it's a cognitive decline?