To think ROSPA should make it clear that Older Driver Assessments might result in a loss of license?

[sprucinitup]

An elderly relative was recently diagnosed with a medical condition which does not result in automatic loss of driving license, but nevertheless, his GP recommended that he undertake a free Older Driver Assessment, saying he thought it might be "helpful". He gave my relative a leaflet which also described the assessment as "helpful". My relative booked an assessment. It consisted of online cognitive tests and a practical driving assessment. At the end of this, my relative was told he was driving too hesitantly. But rather than offering the "re-training" mentioned in the leaflet, they removed his license.

He is understandably very upset about this, because he wasn't warned that loss of license was a potential outcome.

This is the website: https://www.olderdrivers.org.uk/driver-assessment/ . If there is info on there about loss of license then it must be well buried because I can't see it.

He is very responsible, and will of course accept the decision, but aibu to think that there should be a more transparent process, so that elderly folk don't feel tricked into giving up their license by stealth?

I have zero tolerance for people who think their right to drive is more important than the safety of other road users. People are so entitled about being allowed to drive. And so outraged when told they can't. Binlorry comes to mind.

DH tells people on a not infrequent basis that they can no longer drive. For health reasons. As in leave your car in the car park, taxi home. The amount of abuse, incredulity, fear etc is amazing. I totally get the independence aspect. But road safety is important.

There are lots of tests that happen. I wonder how bad your dad was that it resulted in that decision.

I think a 5 year retest should be compulsory for everyone. That would remove any accusations of ageism and get dangerous drivers of all ages re-educated or, if they continually fail assessments, off the road. There would need to be temporary licences if people fail the assessment but after eg 3 re-sits, if they can't pass then no licence until they get up to speed with additional lessons.

Before people complain, if you don't genuinely think you could pass a driving test every 5 years, then that's not good. You should be able to drive to the minimum required standard at all times to make the roads safer for everyone.

The appropriate solution to that is mandatory re-testing, as in many other countries.

Btw, it wasn't my dad.

I see what you're saying, but I imagine that if the website listed that you might loose your license as a result of doing this voluntary test, a lot of potentially unsafe drivers wouldn't take it.

Your relative's GP thought that his driving could be affected by his medical condition, and it was, so I actually find quite scary that testing for this would be done on a voluntary basis. Perhaps an argument for widening the conditions requiring mandatory testing?

They are recommending to the dvla rather than them just removing the licence, I think that should have been an expected outcome? Assessment implies you could essentially fail it and they have a duty to report

nope. It was always working through the issues and I never once in the whole of my career assessed someone as needing to go into care or supported living or failing to reach a required standard to live independently. It was always and only a process of working through the issues and coming up with solutions and also their choices and decisions from the available options. By "available options" I mean that some things were just not doable...these were most likely to be things like expecting a relative to move in with them permanently or to visit daily from too great a distance or because they had other responsibilities. Of course I had a view on which way the process would probably (NOT should) go but that was my private view and did not form part of the process. I also did see people who were genuinely not competent to decide how they would manage at home and then an appropriate relative would join in the planning.

actually, they RoSPA have no more duty to report than any other member of the public. I am not sure where they stand on confidentiality.

so it wasn't actually your father? so that distances you even further from the story? How much of what you have told us to you know factually of your own knowledge? How much of it is what you have been told either by the bloke or his wife?

Well, it has been helpful. It's resulted in somebody who is cognitively deteriorating having their licence removed and kept off the road from now on. It's also likely provided usual information to the GP that means he will be more closely monitored, preventing a situation where there's some catastrophic accident or his wife is left caring for him until it becomes dangerous for either or both of them.

It can't be nice learning that you are declining, but if it isn't going to be made compulsory (and no government has dared so far), then any way that can get people into assessment is better than none. Publicising the consequences will just get a greater number of stubborn, selfish or unaware of the degree of their loss of function people avoiding the assessments - increasing the incidence of accidents in the population due to this.

Have you actually seen the letter? Has he had any communication from the DVLA?

the licence hasn't actually been removed.
How do you know that the deterioration is cognitive?

Apologies for getting the connection wrong.

I agree there should be mandatory testing. There is a legal requirement to reapply every 3 years over 70. It's not an automatic right to continue.

Whether this is underhand or not, I guess is a matter of perspective but also depends on what he was told when he was sat with his wife. People hear what they want to hear, not always what they were told. And I would expect a driving assessment to have a duty of care, reporting concerns to DVLA.

I've just checked and RoSPA have no power to take a licence away. The GP obviously had concerns but there are some relevant facts missing from the OP.

And he was told it would be useful to do a test as although his condition doesn't automatically mean he can't drive it would be wise to check if his ability to drive had been affected. The fact they've not faced what that meant isn't anyone else's fault.

How old is he. What is the medical condition? I feel like you're going to say 85+ and Parkinson's or Alzheimer's

YABU. This older person wasn’t tricked any more than someone taking a driving test was tricked. Both are an assessment of driving skills and ability. Obviously any assessment comes with the risk that the result of the assessment might not be good news.

More than that, far, far too many older drivers continue to drive when they’re not safe to do so. If your relative had refused to do the assessment, the GP would probably have reported him to the DVLA anyway. The assessment was a gentler way for the GP to deal with it and they were obviously hoping your relative would realise during the assessment that they were no longer fit to drive.

There was no “trick”. If you’re not fit to drive, you shouldn’t be driving - whether that verdict has come from your GP, an assessment, an older person’s driving lesson, etc etc. This was luck not a trick. Your relative has been stopped before he hurt himself or others.

More than your idea of mandatory retesting, I think there should be an age at which your licence expires for good. (I’d also raise the age you can start driving too).

FFS YES!!!! the OP is either misled or isn't telling us all the story.

If it takes dangerous unsafe drivers off the roads..🤷🏻‍♀️

'Also there are occasions when unfortunately we have to advise our clients that they are not safe to drive. In these circumstances it would not be appropriate for you to drive yourself home.'

A strong hint there.

It's being spoken of by the OP as though it has been - chances are that it will be as soon as the report goes into the DVLA in any case.

If it had been due to eyesight, he'd have failed an eye test, and if there was nothing wrong cognitively (a common sign of alzheimers/dementia is difficulty with driving), any physical issues could have been dealt with through adaptions.

Rospa reported to DVLA. They are the ones who take a license away.

Op wont be convinced, despite everyonedisagreeing with them. Really not sure what their issue is tbo. Elderly man with wife goes to GP. Gets a medical diagnosis that is not a definite no to driving but is presumably a maybe from how it was described. They go for a test to see how their driving could be supported. Result to dvla is advised not to drive. Up to dvla to remove license.

So yes. Distressing, difficult, upsetting. But seriously entitled too.

I think people should all have to be retested at a certain age. 75 maybe?

The GP probably did have concerns, but he didn't express them openly. If he had, then my relative (FiL) would have accepted the advice. His wife (MiL) would also have accepted the advice. Others in the same situation may not accept the advice, so the GP clearly feels he needs to be less than upfront in his approach, and the leaflet and website facilitate that.

It is the lack of honesty that has created the upset.

Were you there in the room? Did you actually hear what was said?

I’d have thought it was pretty obvious where it was headed.
I imagine he is devastated, it’s taking away his Independence and there are worse drivers around! Could he resit at all?
My uncle was driving around with dementia, listening to my aunts instructions, she doesn’t drive and is 88 ish.

What happened after the assessment though? You make it sound like his licence was automatically revoked, which can't be what happened. At some point, he was told that he was unfit to drive and would lose his licence. I don't see how it's unfair or dishonest, and I'm glad that unsafe drivers can be taken off the roads. You should be glad that he's no longer a danger to himself!