To think ROSPA should make it clear that Older Driver Assessments might result in a loss of license?

[sprucinitup]

An elderly relative was recently diagnosed with a medical condition which does not result in automatic loss of driving license, but nevertheless, his GP recommended that he undertake a free Older Driver Assessment, saying he thought it might be "helpful". He gave my relative a leaflet which also described the assessment as "helpful". My relative booked an assessment. It consisted of online cognitive tests and a practical driving assessment. At the end of this, my relative was told he was driving too hesitantly. But rather than offering the "re-training" mentioned in the leaflet, they removed his license.

He is understandably very upset about this, because he wasn't warned that loss of license was a potential outcome.

This is the website: https://www.olderdrivers.org.uk/driver-assessment/ . If there is info on there about loss of license then it must be well buried because I can't see it.

He is very responsible, and will of course accept the decision, but aibu to think that there should be a more transparent process, so that elderly folk don't feel tricked into giving up their license by stealth?

RoSPA don't make the decision. If you take a test to assess whether you're fit to drive, surely it's obvious that one possible outcome is that you are assessed as not fit to drive? And if that happens, it is best not to drive? Again, I'm sure we're missing some vital information but whatever happened, DVLA have made a decision. I don't think dishonesty comes into it.

And you think that’s a good thing? Terrifying

But he’s still been deemed unsafe to drive. @sprucinitup are you and your family really that arrogant you think that he should still be driving?

If I understand what @sprucinitup is trying to say - it is not the fact that OP’s relative lost their licence but that they were deeply distressed by the suddenness of it happening. It is not that they would not have proceeded with the test, but that a) they may have prepared better for the assessment and b) they would have undertaken the assessment prepared for the possibility of having their licence taken away - ie it would have been much less distressing/shocking when it happened. It’s about the elder relative being emotionally and psychologically prepared for the possible (and actual) outcome and being able to start planning for that eventuality.

Having checked the links, I cannot find any reference to this and if I were the OP or her relative I would be writing to the relevant department to complain. It’s not about appealing the decision - it’s the right one for their relative in terms of keeping both them and others safe - it’s about the heartlessness and unnecessary harshness of not preparing them in advance of the eventual/possible outcome.

What did they think the assessment would be for? A basic “yay you! Great driver!” The only outcome?

Nuh. there is a HUGE gap in the story here.

I had a parent (now deceased) who was incredibly difficult to persuade to give up driving. I really don't think 'hurt feelings' should come into this. If he's been assessed as not fit to drive, be glad that he's not physically injured himself or others by driving. I think the restrictions should be much tighter tbh.

i agree, all the literature says its just advice.

However, i imagine there will always be space for them to report to the DVLA if they find something alarming that tells them a driver should stop.

How irresponsible would they be if they just gave out some advice on how to improve if the driver was dangerous, and let them carry on?

I saw the form that the GP had to fill in. FIL declared having atrial fibrillation to the DVLA. The GP signed the form to say he was fine to drive.
He still has his driving license.

His AF is not the main problem and it's not the reason the hospital doctor told him to have a driving assessment.

If you don’t realize lose of driving is
possible, you just proved you need to stop driving

Having read all the information on the website, I agree with you OP. It's clear from many of the comments that some people did not examine the wording on the site.
In any case, it is a good outcome that he will no longer be driving if it is unsafe to do so. As others have said, these tests should be mandatory and their purpose transparent.

yes, agree. It's very sneaky. I used to do a lot of driving for work and they offered us the chance to do something similar, which was supposed to be just a refresher/handy tips sort of thing, a bit like pass plus but for experienced drivers so it's not unreasonable if he assumed that was the same sort of thing.

I suppose the key thing was the word 'assessment' which does imply pass/fail but still, he can't give informed consent if he doesn't know what might happen if he failed! What if he drove his car to the test centre, how was he supposed to get home/what was he supposed to do with the car, for example?

I agree we need to get dangerous drivers off the road but not by misleading them!

I’ve just read the leaflet that he was given and that doesn’t mention the possibility of losing your licence either.

What it does mention is asking your family for their opinion on your driving. Did he ask you or your DH before taking the assessment?

Do you think that some of his feelings of being tricked are being fuelled by embarrassment at no longer being fit to drive? Something pretty significant must have happened on the assessment for them to contact the DVLA.

People can also be very reluctant to admit to themselves that they are no longer safe. You only have to ask anyone involved in appeals when drivers have had their licence revoked on medical grounds.

I still think the best advice is to sympathise though and then sort them out with a local taxi firm.

Do they live near a bus route and can they walk to the shops and Doctors?

I found the book Twilight Shepherd by John Oakstone helpful in situations like this.

The test wasn’t compulsory. Your relative probably wouldn’t have done the test if he knew that he might lose his licence.

I think these tests should be compulsory for those over, say, 75. It’s very worrying for relatives when elderly people keep on driving

A fail doesn't mean an automatic loss of licence, that only happens if the assessment shows up that the driver would be dangerous, then DVLA is informed, otherwise, the advice might be "Get you eyes tested/new glasses etc"

Its no different from going to your GP, a serious health issue identified, the GP is duty bound to inform DVLA, you didn't make that GP appointment thinking you could lose your licence.

You are putting the rights of a dangerous driver above those of his innocent (potential) victims who had no say in being run over by him.

I couldn't care less about his "rights" too many people are killed on UK roads, inc my DDs friend who was run over by a driver advised to stop driving but carried on regardless.

I would have a tiered driving licence for young people and tests like these, every 3 years from 67.

Driving is a privilege, not a right, and I think there should be tests starting at a certain age.

There's a whole section on that leaflet about when it might be unwise to continue driving including the line 'You must stop driving if you have been told to by the DVLA or by your GP. '

My mother did an assessment to see if she was fit to drive as recommended by her GP. This was back in 2015. She had early stage dementia, was properly medicated & if you met her in a social setting, you would not have known that she was ill. She had been diagnosed from a MRI.
I can’t remember which organisation did it - it might’ve been ROSPA or a Driving Mobility Centre. We didn’t have to pay.
It was a practical & you were graded green, yellow, orange & red in a variety of categories. Green was fine, yellow was should have refresher driving lessons, if you got enough oranges then it was driving lessons then a retest but any reds meant the licence was revoked.
She failed the assessment.
The examiner told me that her licence was immediately revoked. I’d driven her to the test centre. I drove back home & as soon as possible, I removed the licence from her purse, took the keys & a mechanic friend tinkered with her car’s engine, immobilising it. We returned the licence back to the DVLA. She also received a letter from the DVLA stating that she was unfit to drive. They gave no reasons.
I don’t understand why your uncle took the assessment thinking it would result in him keeping his licence. He was having his driving ability assessed. That’s the whole point of an assessment - to assess your capability. It’s like an exam. You pass or fail! Maybe there is the possibility to retake the assessment now, I don’t know.
I have a medical condition which led to my licence being immediately revoked upon informing the DVLA as per instruction from my doctors. Now everything is stable, my consultants are happy for me to drive so I am assessed by the DVLA every 3 years as to whether I can drive with a medical licence. My consultants are questioned & DVLA medical department assess the results & it takes a balls-achingly long time.
Sadly as a result of the DVLA’s incompetence, they’ve not even scanned my paperwork in to their system - my condition cannot be sorted online - and my licence will be revoked yet again in March, despite me starting the renewal process just before XMAS. However once on the DVLA system, if my consultants feel I’m fit to drive, I can continue to drive under Section 88 of the 1988 Road Traffic Act.
Maybe I’m the wrong person to talk about this… Anyone that grumbles about having their licence revoked for any reason does not have my sympathy. There’s a reason that you’re deemed to be unfit to drive. Get over it.

Did your relative have yearly appointments at the optician ?
Because an optician can also advise a patient that their eye site is below the minimum driving standard and not to drive

the only people who can revoke a licence are the DVLA. Are you sure you are remembering all the story?

Driving rules have changed recently

Over 70s used to be able to self certify every 3 years

Now they will need an optician & another test like the one this person did every 3 years.

No one will be able to self certify

Lots of people ate unaware that these charges have occurred, but they have been on the news

I'm sorry but I agree with this. Regardless of the leaflet, it is well known and has been for a very long time that at a certain age/level of health you can be subject to a driving assessment that can result in your license being taken away. It wasn't called a support session.

It’s obvious when you are invited to the test? My stepfather had dementia and unfortunately passed the test with flying colours. We thought he was unfit to drive even at that point but within a few months he was an absolute menace nearly causing accidents. Another driver flagged him down and told him he was unfit to drive, so he acknowledged it himself and stopped.

I agree with you.

I think the website is dishonest and deliberately so.

I mean I think one has to understand that any time one gets in a car with a another person whether a professional or not they entitled to conclude we aren't a safe driver and report us to DVLA

But that's by the by- if people are being enticed to do these safe driver assessments on a dishonest basis then that's unacceptable

I find it sad how many elderly drivers drive when they clearly aren't safe, but tricking into having what seems to amount to a test does not seem like the ethical solution

I agree with your sentiment about grumbling about licences being revoked and indeed right now I'm not driving out of choice because I don't feel I have recovered well enough from an injury to be safe to drive.

But having reviewed the website I agree with the op that the language used is not sufficiently clear and indeed seems to deliberately conceal the fact that someone could lose their license as a result of the process