To be so glad WFH became a thing (and to absolutely hate anyone who tries to curtail its availability)

[Designless]

It's just life changingly good

Agree 100%. I work equally from home and from the office and I think I work better at home than I do in the office. There are no distractions at home, whereas in the office I'm constantly interrupted. My days are less tiring at home too, as I don't have an hour long commute at either end of the day. My conditions are superior at home too as I have my desk, chair and equipment set up exactly as I like them and they are better quality than those in the office.

There will always be slackers, whether they are wfh or in the office. It has proven perfectly possible to manage people wfh.

Even if that were so, they would have no obligation to create a wfh job.It is their money and business. As the person accepting the money, all you can do is say you won't work for them if you don't like the position, whether that is because it requires being in an office, or on a factory line tinning beans.

But is it so? Maybe in your sector at the moment. But have you seen the youth unemployment numbers lately?

And in every stack of resumes I get sent from my boss to look at, among the others there are a number of well educated Indians and often a Nigerian, and you can bet they are willing to work in the location the employer wants them to, if local candidates won't. (Though my position is in an old mining town and people are not going to turn down any good job because they prefer not to commute.)

Yeah, it's not that. Come back when you're owed 80k for goods or services delivered, and it's 120+ days late, (Record was well over 200 days) but Tina can't speak to Bob, or see the system notes, or phone and speak to the end user to confirm 'POD' because they are working from home and can't access the systems.

I've been told, directly, that some places are on payment holds and only pay those who basically shout the loudest. A backlog after COVID, yes, six years on that doesn't wash.

If I treated my suppliers like this, I would be blacklisted.

Seems like the issue is their poor systems, not WFH.

Inability to access the required systems is not an inherent part of WFH. I can access everything I need to WFH, as can my company's accounts department.

Also, if a company doesn't want to pay you on time then it won't help if everyone's in the office and able to access everything they need. In my awful first job out of uni, I had to answer the phone to our suppliers and was told to fob them off rather than let them talk to our accounts department. It was hideously embarrassing, especially when you found yourself recycling excuses to the same people for weeks on end.

If WFH is ever banned by people likes of
Farage then loads of women wont have savings, nor a pension, nor a career. Not everyone lives near a hub of jobs (like me stuck in Cornwall!)

I thought we moved past all of this? I'm sure loads of Mumsnet threads urge women to work and be independent. Be part of the economy etc

The hypocrisy is maddening.

FWIW I actually introduced time tracking in the office in my last role. Two of the loudest, most seemingly overworked and stressed team members couldn't hide the fact their output was shockingly low. Stomping around the office, gossiping, acting all huffy and stressed. Performance improvement plans didn't work. And they left.

So skiving shysters exist in the office as well as at home - you'll get slackers everywhere. Just look at parliament

Call centres like yours are an are where employers have hired people for years for wfh scenarios, though. So no surprise it works well.

But there are plenty of sectors where the things that make this effective are not, or are less of, a factor. Not all jobs can track productivity very easily. Some sectors involve a lot more collaborative work. In some mentorship, apprenticeship and training are an important part of not only the individual's work, but team work.

Yes, because the NHS has no outside contractors 🙄- grow up.

You could say that about every industry. You said you worked for Whithall - did you procure all services from within? Nope, didn't think so.

That's an individual problem in that dept by the sounds of it and nothing to do with WFH even if that's the excuse they've given.

I work for the NHS and suddenly during covid when many started WFH including me, systems that were previously unaccessible to many workers became accessible because of WFH.

100% agree, but that is the problem; they don't have access to the correct systems, and years down the line, if it's not been sorted out, you shouldn't be working from home.

I could bore the arse off people, not just with tales of poor accounts departments, but across the spectrum of back office roles and where things have been delayed because a key member of staff, normally senior, is WFH and no one can contact them at 3 in the afternoon or they can't give you a remote access PIN because they are not in the office.

Like I said, I used to have to make up excuses for why we couldn't pay our suppliers. Back in the day I'd have to invent meetings that had inexplicably overrun for senior members of staff, and might well overrun for another few hours, who knows! Or they just popped out of the office and who knows when they'd be back, maybe tomorrow or maybe not until next month? Seems like that excuse has just been adjusted to the WFH era.

Poor accounts depts are poor accounts depts regardless. You're getting fobbed off whether everyone's in the office or everyone's WFH. It doesn't actually say anything about the fundamental merits of WFH as a concept.

The performance of NHS admin in roles where remote work isn't permitted doesn't fill me with optimism that trying to bring all the finance staff back full time would fix the problems.

Recruitment sqeezes bite, unfortunately.

But it is a fundamental issue of WFH when you can't contact people and they dont have access to systems.

I've worked with the NHS for nearly 20 years, across departments, I'm well aware of being fobbed off. I'm also aware of how much easier some things were pre-COVID and how some things have improved post-COVID.

I’m glad because I benefit from it, but personally I don’t like it. I only do it because I have to.

Absolutely. No way DH and I could have both climbed the career ladder if we hadn't both been able to WFH the majority of the time.

I honestly don't understand why people have such an issue with it. I've managed teams of people pre WFH and post and see equal or more productivity in WFH people. Shirkers and slackers are equally easy to spot and deal with - currently dealing with one!

Last year I wasn't able to walk properly for 6 months due to arthritis and my total commute is 3hrs. I haven't needed to take one sick day as I went into the office when I was feeling slightly better. It's ideal for me to have the hybrid option but I feel increasing pressure from management to go into the office for "team bonding".

There are new sandwich shops and cafes opening in our tiny local town. The city centre is overrun with tourists so I think it's greed if businesses do complain about people WFH.

The NHS has had years to sort this problem out. I work for a large organisation which requires very high level security and I can access everything I need for my work from home. People working with extremely secure systems that can only be accessed in the office have to go into the office.

I'm having minor surgery next week (no lifting or driving for a week or 2) but the doctor is quite happy for me to WFH while I recuperate (I usually go into the office twice per week) so I'll only need a day or two off sick, which is better for me and my employer.

Everyone my age, 60, loves it. Several were asked about returning full-time and promptly said they would resign.
It was quickly rescinded.
They go in for meetings 1 or 2 days a month only.

This is important. It's not uncommon for people either temporarily or permanently to be unable to travel into a workplace, but fine doing the actual job part. It's to general societal advantage if we have systems in place allowing as many of them as possible to work.

In theory I agree with you, in practice it seems to be terrible for customers of these organisations. Service for 99% of companies I use has gone downhill since wfh.
How do new starters learn their job, think of all the bits of information you absorb through working in an office and overhearing facts which you can then use in the future.
So I feel that it’s useful for individuals but not for society.

I think it's very likely that the companies you use have reduced their staffing due to the world going increasingly on-line which reduces the need for in-person customer service.

And new starters can learn their job through asking people they work with about it. By email, phonecalls or on teams. Which is what any WFH new job will provide.

I once rang a company’s call centre and the agent was wfh as her OH kissed her goodbye whilst I was on the phone as he was going to work himself. I didn’t find that professional

Nice way for early retirement.

WFH has its place and can be great, but it's people who have this god-like complex over it that kill me. Regardless of any legitimate reasons you can give why it's not okay in some instances, you just get drivel back.

That's a really, really poor response @Designless and very snipy.

You sound as if you're willing to defend WFH no matter what evidence anyone presents to you.

Why is it that at my daughter's cancer hospital (Yes, outing), the receptionist for one of the specialist units has a voicemail which says

"sorry, sometimes I am working from home. I will occasionally check messages and get back to you"

Which is essentially a licence to say "when I'm at home, this number doesn't forward, which means you don't have a receptionist, you have an inbox".

Is that also ok for me to point out, or would your snippy reply be

"well go private then, or maybe you should bring the cancer treatment in-house" etc 😃

Not everything about WFH can be defended, you'd do well to accept that there are people out there who are taking the mick, and that's just factual.

I was on the phone to a MH support worker who was WFH. It sounded like her toddler was crawling over her when she was on the phone to me. Totally unprofessional.