Do I call out DHs lie or keep quiet?

[TheDancingHorses]

Bit of background - DH and I have been together 16 years. All generally good except for his sister who, many years ago, decided she didn’t like me and set about trying to make my life a misery. She turned their parents against me, slagged me and my kids off to anyone who’d listen, tried to split me and DH up, etc.
Unfortunately, DH never really did anything about this and, if anything, actively put his sister first - for example, telling me he didn’t want to get married to me as he didn’t think his sister would be welcome and insisting she came to our children’s birthdays as she’s their aunt and had a right to be there. Apparently (according to DH) they have a ‘special bond’ and she’s always been good to him’ but, over the years, his stance has hurt a lot.

Anyway, we were talking earlier about his sister and I asked when he last spoke to her. He was a bit shifty and gave a vague “ oh a week or so”. Over the years he’s only ever called her when I’m not around and i’ve said that he doesn’t need to as he should just call he whenever he wants. I’m not bothered or interested in what they’re talking about. If anything, it seems weird him only talking when I’m not around, it’s as if he’s hiding things like them talking badly about me.
I’m not proud to say but he was being shifty so I looked at his call log on his phone and can see that, sure enough, he called her yesterday while I was out for the day.

i’m now torn - why’s he lied about phoning and what else has he been lying about over the years? Or am I an even worse person for looking at his phone?
I feel like I should keep quiet as it’s my own fault for checking on him but I also know that the knowledge he’s lied is not going to go away.
Any advice on what to do would be great, thank you!

They would say that isolating a woman from her family/friends/support network is abusive behaviour and a sign of coercive control. And I agree that invading your partner's privacy is incredibly controlling behaviour and, for me, a complete red line in a relationship.

I also don't really understand the "wife must come before birth family" idea that so many on MN espouse (you never hear it said that a wife's husband should come before her mum or dad). Not least because it's not a competition and shouldn't be either/or. Everyone is entitled to a relationship with two people who don't get on, even if those two people are their sister and their wife. It's up to the sister and the wife to get over it, which in practice means to detach from the other person entirely.

I cannot fathom why the OP would be asking her husband about when he last talked to a woman she doesn't like. Is there even a good answer there?

Can you clarify this @TheDancingHorses ? I think people are misreading the situation, as you haven't given enough detail on the behaviour in the present that prompted you to look at the phone.

You should have left years ago when it was obvious he was never going to prioritise you . You can still do it, better late than never!

Typical MN double standards. Woman says in-law was horrible and automatically everyone believes her and sides with her, regardless.

Even though the woman in question here is showing signs of controlling and abusive behaviour.

And maybe that’s it. Maybe the SIL sees her for who she is, and rather than being the villain she’s trying to look out for her brother.

But that would go against the narrative wouldn’t it.

Yes, some families don’t get on. My DP’s family don’t like me, in fairness they don’t like anyone who isn’t one of them so I didn’t stand a chance.

After a long time DP has re-established contact with them, it had nothing to do with me, they’re all just complicated.

I’ve made it clear that I won’t be part of it, and he knows in truth that my being a part of it would make things difficult for him, so he just meets up with them without me.

Fine by me.

But the only reason I need to know when he’s had contact with them is so I know if he’s seeing them and I have the house to myself. ;)

The conversation earlier came about as DH had said a few weeks ago that he would speak to his sister about some stuff to do with a family inheritance. I asked if he’d spoken to her and he said he had. I then asked when as he hadn’t mentioned it and that was when he was being all vague.

Just to say that I’ve never tried to stop DH from speaking to or seeing his sister whenever he wanted. I just didn’t want anything to do with her myself. I wouldn’t listen in on his conversation, he’d go to another room, that’s why I find it odd that he purposefully calls when I’m not around. Also, i have no wish to isolate him from his family as I know how important they are to him.

It’s called being objective and diplomatic and seeing things from both sides. I didn’t say I was correct I was saying to just look at it from both angles.

You chose to marry him, even though he didn't stand up for you when his sister was treating you like shite so you can't really complain about him having a relationship with his sister. Just stop asking him if he's spoken to her etc and let him get on with it. He's obviously told a white lie to avoid a confrontation. The question is, why were you asking him about when he'd spoken to his sister - why does it matter? And going through his phone is an invasion of his privacy.

Do you have a relationship with your DH's parents? You have said that his sister turned them against you. You have also said that his sister slags off your children as well as you. Surely that must upset your DH but he still puts his sister before his own wife and children. I'm not sure why his loyalties seem to lie with his toxic sister rather than his own children.

Your DH's whole family sounds pretty toxic and I'd probably be re-thinking the relationship and making plans to split up.

The phone thing is no big deal given the circumstances.

I wouldn’t put up with being treated second best by my own DH. You only have one life!

Honestly, why do you stay?

As we age, life can get harder and you really need to be able to count on your partner for support. When push comes to shove you know your DH can’t be relied upon to put your needs first if any of his family clicks their fingers, so maybe it’s time to call it a day?

Hopefully, you’re not yet retired and still have time to build a new life without him. Don’t waste any more years on this lying loser. You deserve better.

I’m sorry op. You are not coming across well at all here.

you don’t like his sister to the extent he had to insist she was at his wedding.

you give him third degree about when he phoned her despite ‘being ok’ with him speaking to her.

you prefer him to call her at times when you can earwig (ie are around and don’t like him going in next room)

You secretly check his phone!!!

he and his sister have clearly recently been bereaved (since you mention they are discussing an inheritance) and you show zero compassion or empathy for the fact he might want privacy to discuss it with someone equally affected.

there is someone who should be ‘called out’ here and it sounds like it’s you.

I would suspect that the vast bulk of this is explained by him avoiding having to tackle any issues. My DH adopts a ‘don’t know what to say so stay silent’ approach even when silence is hurtful or appears to give an unspoken negative response.
From the context your question was part of a general question and reasonable, his being shifty was discomfort. He probably speaks to her when you are out because it is awkward if she says anything about you.
Rather than tackle him about the lie I would find a chance to have a chat with him. Explain that you don’t have an issue with them talking to each other etc. but that secrecy and covert behaviour give the impression that there is a need for secrecy.

Sure you can call him out. As long as you don't mind when he calls you out for snooping through his private property.

Devil's advocate - maybe he thought you meant when did he speak with her about that specific issue rather than in general? So he hasn't lied as such?

Not sure if I explained properly in my earlier post but I wouldn’t be ear wigging on any phone calls. I’d be sure to be out of the room so DH could speak in private. As mentioned, I know how important DHs sister is to him so I have no wish to stop them speaking to or seeing each other whenever they want.

The inheritance relates to distant uncle so I’m not lacking in compassion or empathy. Having lost by my DM and my own DSis in the last two years I’m very aware of the need for support after losing a close relative but this isn’t particularly the case here.

Second post nails it. He does not have your back @TheDancingHorses

No WAY would I have married my DH if he had not defended me in a situation like this.. His mum had a go at me once about something, and he went postal on her. She never said anything to me again. His brother insulted me once too - said it was a joke - and he regretted it too! Any man who is not ALWAYS in my corner can do one quite honestly.

I am sorry for you @TheDancingHorses and you need to tell your DH how you feel. I don't know if I could stay with mine after this. I would lose all respect for him, and any love I had for him, if he had such a huge amount of disrespect for me.

You accepted that he was keeping his sister in his life. Why is this control around where and when he speaks to her necessary? Why can't you just leave them to it? He isn't insisting that she visit his home, he just wants you and her to not have anymore issues.

This ^^

As an aside, I don’t necessarily disagree with spousal/partner’s phones being looked (if your gut is calling you to do so) but not something to be done as a matter of course.

He probably lied about the phone call for an easy life if he knew you wouid question him about it. But she's his sister and not 'another woman'. Let him get on with the relationship with his sister but don't bother with her or talk about her or go anywhere she is likely to be.

You talk as though you missed your chance to leave him. You can leave any time you want.

A PP says wife beats family. i don't agree with this. It shouldn't be a choice anyway but sad to say marriages end, (good) families are forever. I would never turn my back on my brother or parents for a spouse/partner, and if they asked me to it would be a dealbreaker.

I do wonder what the other side of this is, if OP's DH was saying that his sister wouldn't be welcome at his wedding then it doesn't sound like OP was quiet about her feelings either.

I also don't think this was a big lie, if he'd said he wasn't in contact with her but was that would be one thing, but being a few days out doesn't make much difference. I think you need to let him have that relationship, happily, OP, and try to build bridges where you can or at least not interfere or quiz him at all about it.

If a woman came on here and said that her partner was stopping her speaking to her sister, to the extent that she had to call when he was out of the house, and he was then hacking into her phone to track her calls, we'd be saying there were red flags everywhere

I think it's unsurprising he calls her when you are not around as who wants to feel forced to go to a different room when talking to a family member on the phone?

It's a tricky situation because having nothing to do with your husband's sister at all makes life tricky as it's not really possible and puts him in a very awkward position. I'm speaking as someone who gets caught between my partner and my sibling. My sibling can be difficult but I still make it clear to that they won't be excluded from family events because I don't want to allow rifts to develop. That doesn't mean expecting anyone to accept bad behaviour but just being civil when the occasion arises.

Is it worth seeing a counsellor specialising in family dynamics to discuss how best to move forward? Maybe do couples therapy as well?

The whole subject makes your dh uncomfortable so he prefers to keep everything completely and utterly separate.
Even if you don't mind now, clearly you have in the past with the wedding etc, so he doesn’t quite know what he should say or do, so he buries his head in the sand and acts like a deer in the headlights when you question him.
Just let him crack on, and let it go.

But I’m not and never have stopped him from speaking to his sister. I don’t have a problem with him speak to her or seeing her whenever he wants, and I’ve said this too him countless times. I just find it odd that he only speaks to her when I’m out, and that he’s lied about it.