To ask you about the advice I've given DS 14

[Iserino]

Need some help and advice from parents with teenagers, or from parents who have been through the teen years.
In year 8, DS was part of a friendship group of 4 boys including him.
They were really close, hung out together every break/lunch at school and met up socially regularly after school, at weekends and in school holidays.
DS used to love being part of the group and always talked about how much fun he had with them.
1 of the boys, let's call him Fred, was mischievous and did a lot of things that he would get him detentions at school. His mum would refer to him as 'naughty'. In year 8 I was aware of Fred's behaviour and was monitoring DS's friendship with him closely. But DS said he was funny and made him laugh and that he was fun to be with and was full of character/charisma even though other aspects of his behaviour pushed boundaries and saw him get into trouble at school. In summer of last year they were still a close friendship group.
Then in September, starting year 9, DS went through a real step forward in development and maturity. He suddenly grew about 5 inches taller, voice deepened, and he started maturing in his views and opinions. Meanwhile, simultaneously, Fred ramped up his poor behaviour. His previous 'mischievous' behaviour turned into antisocial behaviour and DS started to dislike it. Fred started permanently disrupting lessons and DS started disliking this, coming home saying to me that loads of teaching time was being taken up by teachers managing Fred's disruptive behaviour which was stopping the teacher from teaching and causing frustration amongst the class, and DS was taking issue with this because it was impacting on his learning. Fred started acting up in class by being the class clown and deliberately winding the teachers up and trying really hard to catch DS's eye to try and get him to laugh along. But whereas in year 8 DS would have chuckled at what was then much more lower level miscievous stuff, now he doesn't want to engage with Fred doing this level of disruption in lessons because Fred's behaviour has escalated and is much worse now, and because he wants to apply himself and learn in his lessons, and because he doesn't want to be seen to be laughing along to this level of disruption. So in November DS stopped sitting next to Fred in their classes, moved seats and started ignoring Fred's loud class clown disruptive behaviour.
He says Fred is now being sent out of lessons daily. Then DS started hearing lots of other year 9 boys talking about how annoying Fred is and how much they don't like him. Fred got suspended in October for 2 days for something he did in school. Now he's just been suspended for 3 days for something else he's done. DS overheard some year 7 boys in the lunch queue talking about Fred saying they were all scared of him because he's mean to them and bullies them, and then they pointed at DS and said to each other "that's one of the Fred's friends we've seen him with him!" and DS was horrified by hearing this (he hadn't known this boy was being mean to year 7s) and was horrified by them associating him with Fred being mean to them. DS then witnessed Fred throwing stones at a year 7 girl at school, hitting her legs, which was reported. Other examples of behaviour are Fres walked into our back garden whilst he knew we were out and wrecked some of our garden property. He came along to a PTA event at DD's primary school and vandalised school property which caused uproar amongst parents. He vandalised some public toilets. There's lots of other antisocial behaviours I could list, too long to go through.
By November DS was saying he no longer wanted to be associated with Fred's behaviour because he didn't like what his behaviour had developed in to and he didn't want it to affect his own reputation. He started standing up against Fred, started calling him out when he behaved badly at school, and then consciously walked away from him.
This led to Fred's mum texting me angrily having a go at me about my DS confronting Fred and ranting about my DS moving seats away from Fred in lessons. It was a really hostile, attacking text.
DS walking away from Fred made Fred angry and in December he spent weeks leading up to Christmas bullying DS, he literally broke DS with the level of abusive personal insults and incessant bullying behaviour towards him. The things he said to DS were terrible, he used personal knowledge he had of difficulties and bullying that DS has endured in the past and used this against DS to break him emotionally. He started a smear campaign against DS and told another student that DS had called him a "F*ing immigrant c**t" when it was FRED who was going round saying this about the student concerned!!! The mother of this student reported my DS to the HofY for saying this (he didn't say it) and suddenly DS was being framed for saying something he NEVER said. It ruined Christmas for us because DS was crushed as a result of how nasty and vindictive this boy was being to him daily throughout December. He was out to tear DS down and it worked.
But DS still loves the other 2 boys who were in the friendship group. He was really close to them and really valued their friendship. Their behaviour was normal, nothing Fred's behaviour. And these 2 boys have stuck by Fred. They are still hanging out with Fred daily at school. Still socialising with him out of school.
I have explicitly told DS to stay away from Fred. No talking to him at school. No engaging with him. DS has blocked his number. I'm telling DS regularly to stay away. I have had the behaviour lead at school telling me to advise DS to stay away from Fred.
But the other 2 boys are permanently with Fred. So by avoiding Fred in school and outside of school, it means DS can't hang out with the other 2 who he still wants to be friends with, and who I don't have a problem with.
What's worse, is that these 2 boys have now taken issue with DS for 'ditching' them (in their words). They see DS as ditching them because of his problems with Fred. And they are annoyed with DS about this, because as far as they are concerned they should all 4 of them carry on hanging out together, and the other 2 are cross with DS for never hanging out with them anymore. They see DS as the one who's left all of them. I have texted one of the mums to explain the situation and have told her DS still wants to be friends with her DS it's just that he has been told by me to avoid Fred at all times which means he can't get to her DS cos they've always together, and I've tried really hard to make social plans for DS to see this other boy outside of school, but whilst she said she understood what I was saying, her DS doesn't want to meet up with my DS. I happen to know these other 2 boys (who DS wants to still be friends with) had a sleepover together last night and DS wasn't invited. This stings, because a few months ago he would have been and they boys regarded DS as their best mate.
I'm worrying that Fred is influencing these 2 away from DS. I know Fred is a liar. I've had him look me square in the eye and lie to my face when I've asked him about things in the past that I know he's done. I know he lies. He is extremely convincing. My gut feeling/instinct is telling me he's telling lies about my DS to the other 2, as payback for DS calling out his behaviour and pulling away from him.
So now I don't know if I've done the right thing in telling DS that he can't hang out with the other 2 boys IF Fred is with them. I've explicitly told him he cannot socialise with the other 2 if Fred is with them. But DS says Fred is always with them. So now it has ended up cutting him away from his other 2 friends, and he has ultimately lost their friendship too.
And now they've carrying on having fun as a 3, and DS is isolated with no friends and is spending half term alone with me. Before all this, he would've spent half term with them.
DS says all the other friendship groups in year 9 are already formed. He's tried really hard to chat to other boys and has tried to get to know others and hang out with them at school, but he says they've all been in close friendship groups or close pairs since year 7 and are all a bit closed off to him coming along and joining.
He's told me this week he's feeling really sad and lonely and so now I'm questioning my decisions. He loves seeing friends and socialising, he isn't happy being alone.
I don't know what to do to help him. He's the loveliest boy and he really wants to have friends.

This is too long to read, OP

I think you need to help your son accept this friendship group is finished. Could you sign him up for some activities out of school to help him make a new peer group?

He’s made the right decision, long term, your advice was correct.

He will be starting GCSEs soon; this will be an opportunity for him to forge some new friendships. He can choose subjects he’s interested in (and is unlikely to be in a class with Fred for these).

You could also talk to the pastoral leaders/Head of Year and ask for a form move (perhaps to the other side of the year, if such a thing exists).

Well I think your son will ultimately choose who he wants to hang round with at school regardless of what you think. However, I think hanging around with Fred at all would be a very poor decision given what has happened in the past.
If he is currently in Year 9, next year the classes will be completely different due to GCSE options, so it will be an opportunity for your son to mix and sit with other people. I'm surprised that students have been able to move freely around - I work in schools as support and have never been in a class without a seating plan.
If the other two boys wish to continue to hang around with Fred then I think your son has no choice but to accept that.

If you were being bullied by a former friend and 2 mutual friends didnt see anything wrong in this and expected you to get over it, would you just hang out with those 2 mutual friends as if they weren't still friends with your bully?

Heartbreaking for you and your son. But also, you know he’s made a good choice and you’re giving excellent advice. He does not want to be known to be Fred’s friend and it will reflect badly on the two other boys. It’s so sad he loses their friendship - but hopefully it may not be forever. Once Fred realises he won’t get any more out of your son, he may well turn on one of them.

All I can echo and suggest is joining clubs in or out of school - sports, arts or academic - which will bring your son into contact with likeminded people who may have written him off due to his previous associations, but will see him in a different light now. He’s done the hardest thing, something good will come his way now he’s not invested in a toxic friendship. Keep on going, the only other option would be to go back and that would be much worse.

Also, think of the half term they’ve probably had. It’s unlikely to have been anything pleasant. Your son would be carrying the guilt and stress of throwing stuff at people and being part of antisocial behaviour. Matter of time before it all catches up with them.

This actually happened to me as a teen. Right down to the friends sticking with the bully but being my 'friend' too.
Your DS needs to ditch them all. The others will be involved in low level behaviour in some way, and your DS can't trust them when they are friends with his bully.
I really feel for your DS because it really sucks when you can't get into a new friendship group but he does just need to give it time. Remember others may be dubious of him to begin with because of his previous friendship with Fred and his 'laughing along' before. Fred hasn't helped by spreading rumours but they will die down and your DS will show himself for not being the person Fred claims he is.

Obviously you can't actually control your DS friendships but have open conversations about how people support bullies to avoid being on the recieving end, and how being friends with them may give Fred more ammunition against your DS even by accident.

No it isnt.

it’s unusual at this age for mums to be getting involved in friendship issues.

often when kids move up to secondary the friendships shift and they wind up with friends whose parents you have never met.

your DS has clearly made the right long term decision. However there are going to be friendship repercussions, yes.

in your shoes I would stop getting involved with the other mums - no good will come of this. Mute them and don’t reply to what’s apps.

focus on helping your DS develop other friendships.

So sorry, OP this is tough for you both. Teenage friendships aren't always based on decency or fairness. I agree with PPs that your DS needs to fill his time, both in and outside of school, with clubs and activities that will in the first instance fill his time, and eventually lead to new, more positive connections.

Having a sense of purpose when lessons end, such as going to a lunchtime club, takes the delight away from bullies, as they aren't seeing their target sitting around wishing they were friends again. Your DS has to learn to "fake it til he makes it" and not give this old friendship group so much headspace.

As for the 2 other boys, even "good" kids bow to peer pressure/fear they'll be next so won't always feel able to make a stand. You've tried to explain to the parents but you need to let it go and not concern yourself with their social activities.

It's true what your DS says about established friendship groups but they're not impenetrable but it will take time - hence the "fake it, til you make it" advice.

Do speak to the school, as your DS has been severely bullied and the teachers should be looking out for him and engineering opportunities for him to be mixed into class project groups/seating plans so he's not permanently isolated.

Love to you both as you move forward - things will gradually change!

I teach teens. Its very normal for groups to shift and if Fred's behaviour continues it's quite likely the other two will also distance themselves as GCSEs start. Joining clubs in or out of school is a good way for your DS to find other friends in the meantime. You've done tje right thing. Fred's mum may be minimising his behaviour, even looking to blame your ds for not sticking around to be a good influence. Stay out of it as much as you can but make sure the school know where your DS is at so any allegations against him will be looked at closely.

Really kindly @Iserino you need to stop texting his friends (ex friends) mums. Horrible as this is he needs to navigate this himself and have you for back up / to vent.

The friendship group that he had is over. Luckily if he is 14 he will soon be very busy with GCSE prep, encourage him to throw himself into that, attend all the lunchtime extra lessons that they put on and focus on the future. He will be at college before he knows it and making new friends that better align with his values.

It sucks that Fred has ruined his hich school experience but that's out of your control. What the other boys do is out of your control.

First off you didn’t advice you gave him an instructions not too and I think that was wrong because it placed your in charge and not him - you are too involved with the texting and the telling

if it was advice it was sound - and that is what you need to start doing talking and advising him as to how he should handle it not tell him

I bailed out after about a third

Sounds to me as if you gave given your son sensible advice, but that your son had already made the decision for himself, and what you told him just supported his own decision.

Iy sounds as if your son has matured more than Fred and the other 2 boys. We can't tell of they actually enjoy Fred's company and want to stay friends, or are frightened of what Fred will do if they support your son.

I think it was the right decision to let the school know what is happening, so your son doesn't end up being seen as an accomplice in any of Fred's actions. Hopefully the other 2 boys see the sense in that too, before it is too late.

I agree with the suggestion of joining a club. It could create new friendship groups for DS and give him a bit more confidence back.

Is your DS picking options soon ready for year 10? The change in year 10 may distance him from Fred even more if they end up picking different subjects, or being in different classes based on ability. He may also end up in classes with some he hasn't spent much time with before, which could mean more of a friendship woth some others.

I’d reiterate the ‘speak to the school’ advice. I’m sure the teaching staff are happy that your ds is no longer encouraging Fred’s behaviour, and they may well be able to help him - maybe including a form move.

Definitely speak to school, explain the parental contact too and that you will no longer partake in it. The main thing to take away from this is to stop contacting the other parents. If they contact you have a one line answer of this needs be addressed to the school and not to you. This is one of the hangovers from primary school, you can't manage his friendships via the parents.

To be honest the friendship groups who are not welcoming your son with open arms are fully aware of Fred's behaviour and who his friends are.

It just takes time. The two boys who he still wants to be friends with are not good people. As much as he likes them by aligning themselves with Fred it shows their personality and good people would not stand by someone who throws stones at a year 7 girl. If they cannot see that then that is on their parents. Your son needs to understand that some friendships last and can massively evolve and some just end sometimes abruptly. Talk to him about your own school friends, same with his Dad, let him feel less alone.

Your son needs to hold his head up, fake it till you make it, join clubs both in and out of school. If Fred tries to bully him then he can just look bored, ask him if that is all and walk away. He should report any verbal abuse to whoever is listed in the school planner he no doubt carries round with him. He needs to start trying to shut this down.

Email school today saying you are concerned about him.

Ok so Fred has behavioural issues

Im flabbergasted by how involved you and other parents are in these boys friendships (unless these were friends in primary school who's parents you knew?)

You son needs to cut his losses and make new friends. Get him involved in some new out of school activities

I’ve said YABU because at 14 it isn’t for you to tell him who he can and can’t hang around with. If you told him that you wouldn’t in his circumstances that’s different.

I don’t think it sounds like the right friendship group anymore, and Fred sounds awful - guessing he’s never been told off for anything at home and that’s now coming to fruition. But if your son wants to see the other two, that’s for him to decide. At least then he could get his side across and the boys would likely see Fred being awful to him for themselves.

I don’t know what the solution is, but he needs to choose his own friends and navigate accordingly.

Your son is learning that doing the right thing isn’t always popular or easy but he’s done the right thing. That should be celebrated. Lots of additional attention and activities so he can start to find his own tribe again.

He can be friends with the others but if they haven’t chosen for now to side with Fred there is no point him battling that.

This happened to my dd and she ended up being isolated and lonely. It was hard. But living a life of integrity is hard. It’s much easier to take the path of least resistance and join in with the bullies and dickheads.

I would stop getting involved and just try to support your son through this time. Let things take their course. It broke my heart to see my dd in such pain but the strength and character she gained from that period has really benefitted her in the long run.

If it was my son, I would probably see if he can move to the other half of the year or even school, it's really hard when you lose your friend group.

The other two boys picked Fred and his problematic behaviour over your DS, which does suggest that nice as they appear to you, they're not that great either, as presumably they're happy to stand mutely while Fred bullies younger kids and girls, throws around racist slurs and lies to get people into trouble.
Its hard times for young people when their friends change or reveal a side to themselves that doesn't align with their own values, but there's nothing much that can be done other than move on and make new friends. And that's from all of this group, not just Fred.
The friendship groups may be established but I doubt entirely impenetrable and I'd be advising DS to forget these boys and focus on other people. There's usually one or two kids who are more approachable, perhaps a little on the fringes themselves and may welcome friendship with DS. There's also out of school activities if these are an option.

Firstly, I don’t think it’s appropriate or practical at that age for you to be trying to dictate who your DS can and can’t be friends with.

Having said that, Fred sounds like a nightmare and I’m not surprised your DS wants away from him if his own accord.

Unfortunately, characters like him often have a lot of influence/control over others. I wouldn’t be surprised though if the other two boys change their minds once Fred gets into gradually more serious trouble and/or they mature.

In any event, I would expect groups to change as GCSEs approach.