To ask you about the advice I've given DS 14

[Iserino]

Need some help and advice from parents with teenagers, or from parents who have been through the teen years.
In year 8, DS was part of a friendship group of 4 boys including him.
They were really close, hung out together every break/lunch at school and met up socially regularly after school, at weekends and in school holidays.
DS used to love being part of the group and always talked about how much fun he had with them.
1 of the boys, let's call him Fred, was mischievous and did a lot of things that he would get him detentions at school. His mum would refer to him as 'naughty'. In year 8 I was aware of Fred's behaviour and was monitoring DS's friendship with him closely. But DS said he was funny and made him laugh and that he was fun to be with and was full of character/charisma even though other aspects of his behaviour pushed boundaries and saw him get into trouble at school. In summer of last year they were still a close friendship group.
Then in September, starting year 9, DS went through a real step forward in development and maturity. He suddenly grew about 5 inches taller, voice deepened, and he started maturing in his views and opinions. Meanwhile, simultaneously, Fred ramped up his poor behaviour. His previous 'mischievous' behaviour turned into antisocial behaviour and DS started to dislike it. Fred started permanently disrupting lessons and DS started disliking this, coming home saying to me that loads of teaching time was being taken up by teachers managing Fred's disruptive behaviour which was stopping the teacher from teaching and causing frustration amongst the class, and DS was taking issue with this because it was impacting on his learning. Fred started acting up in class by being the class clown and deliberately winding the teachers up and trying really hard to catch DS's eye to try and get him to laugh along. But whereas in year 8 DS would have chuckled at what was then much more lower level miscievous stuff, now he doesn't want to engage with Fred doing this level of disruption in lessons because Fred's behaviour has escalated and is much worse now, and because he wants to apply himself and learn in his lessons, and because he doesn't want to be seen to be laughing along to this level of disruption. So in November DS stopped sitting next to Fred in their classes, moved seats and started ignoring Fred's loud class clown disruptive behaviour.
He says Fred is now being sent out of lessons daily. Then DS started hearing lots of other year 9 boys talking about how annoying Fred is and how much they don't like him. Fred got suspended in October for 2 days for something he did in school. Now he's just been suspended for 3 days for something else he's done. DS overheard some year 7 boys in the lunch queue talking about Fred saying they were all scared of him because he's mean to them and bullies them, and then they pointed at DS and said to each other "that's one of the Fred's friends we've seen him with him!" and DS was horrified by hearing this (he hadn't known this boy was being mean to year 7s) and was horrified by them associating him with Fred being mean to them. DS then witnessed Fred throwing stones at a year 7 girl at school, hitting her legs, which was reported. Other examples of behaviour are Fres walked into our back garden whilst he knew we were out and wrecked some of our garden property. He came along to a PTA event at DD's primary school and vandalised school property which caused uproar amongst parents. He vandalised some public toilets. There's lots of other antisocial behaviours I could list, too long to go through.
By November DS was saying he no longer wanted to be associated with Fred's behaviour because he didn't like what his behaviour had developed in to and he didn't want it to affect his own reputation. He started standing up against Fred, started calling him out when he behaved badly at school, and then consciously walked away from him.
This led to Fred's mum texting me angrily having a go at me about my DS confronting Fred and ranting about my DS moving seats away from Fred in lessons. It was a really hostile, attacking text.
DS walking away from Fred made Fred angry and in December he spent weeks leading up to Christmas bullying DS, he literally broke DS with the level of abusive personal insults and incessant bullying behaviour towards him. The things he said to DS were terrible, he used personal knowledge he had of difficulties and bullying that DS has endured in the past and used this against DS to break him emotionally. He started a smear campaign against DS and told another student that DS had called him a "F*ing immigrant c**t" when it was FRED who was going round saying this about the student concerned!!! The mother of this student reported my DS to the HofY for saying this (he didn't say it) and suddenly DS was being framed for saying something he NEVER said. It ruined Christmas for us because DS was crushed as a result of how nasty and vindictive this boy was being to him daily throughout December. He was out to tear DS down and it worked.
But DS still loves the other 2 boys who were in the friendship group. He was really close to them and really valued their friendship. Their behaviour was normal, nothing Fred's behaviour. And these 2 boys have stuck by Fred. They are still hanging out with Fred daily at school. Still socialising with him out of school.
I have explicitly told DS to stay away from Fred. No talking to him at school. No engaging with him. DS has blocked his number. I'm telling DS regularly to stay away. I have had the behaviour lead at school telling me to advise DS to stay away from Fred.
But the other 2 boys are permanently with Fred. So by avoiding Fred in school and outside of school, it means DS can't hang out with the other 2 who he still wants to be friends with, and who I don't have a problem with.
What's worse, is that these 2 boys have now taken issue with DS for 'ditching' them (in their words). They see DS as ditching them because of his problems with Fred. And they are annoyed with DS about this, because as far as they are concerned they should all 4 of them carry on hanging out together, and the other 2 are cross with DS for never hanging out with them anymore. They see DS as the one who's left all of them. I have texted one of the mums to explain the situation and have told her DS still wants to be friends with her DS it's just that he has been told by me to avoid Fred at all times which means he can't get to her DS cos they've always together, and I've tried really hard to make social plans for DS to see this other boy outside of school, but whilst she said she understood what I was saying, her DS doesn't want to meet up with my DS. I happen to know these other 2 boys (who DS wants to still be friends with) had a sleepover together last night and DS wasn't invited. This stings, because a few months ago he would have been and they boys regarded DS as their best mate.
I'm worrying that Fred is influencing these 2 away from DS. I know Fred is a liar. I've had him look me square in the eye and lie to my face when I've asked him about things in the past that I know he's done. I know he lies. He is extremely convincing. My gut feeling/instinct is telling me he's telling lies about my DS to the other 2, as payback for DS calling out his behaviour and pulling away from him.
So now I don't know if I've done the right thing in telling DS that he can't hang out with the other 2 boys IF Fred is with them. I've explicitly told him he cannot socialise with the other 2 if Fred is with them. But DS says Fred is always with them. So now it has ended up cutting him away from his other 2 friends, and he has ultimately lost their friendship too.
And now they've carrying on having fun as a 3, and DS is isolated with no friends and is spending half term alone with me. Before all this, he would've spent half term with them.
DS says all the other friendship groups in year 9 are already formed. He's tried really hard to chat to other boys and has tried to get to know others and hang out with them at school, but he says they've all been in close friendship groups or close pairs since year 7 and are all a bit closed off to him coming along and joining.
He's told me this week he's feeling really sad and lonely and so now I'm questioning my decisions. He loves seeing friends and socialising, he isn't happy being alone.
I don't know what to do to help him. He's the loveliest boy and he really wants to have friends.

I don’t think that first sentence is entirely fair. It is very difficult for anyone to stand up to a Fred character who can exert power over others, particularly for a 14 year old.

The other two boys are probably scared of his wrath.

Friendship groups do still wax and wane at that age. I’d encourage your DS to go to lunchtime / after school / sports clubs just to avoid them, and maybe speak to his form tutor or HoY to get their opinion- I don’t generally intervene with school but it might just help open up some options for him in the short term.

Your job as a parent is to help your teenager make the right decisions. You have done that, your ds has done the right thing. You now need to help your ds move on from this friendship group (which is really, really common at this age). Perhaps encourage him to attend clubs in school where he will meet people with similar interests - art, chess, sport, whatever.

Your son is too old for you to be trying to speak to other parents about fixing friendship issues. He'll be an adult in 4 years and unfortunately the teenage years are about preparing them for real life. If it's straying into bullying, then speak to the school.

Agree
hugs to your son @Iserino xxx

Maybe. But that's not helpful to the DS who was brave and is now being continually disappointed when they choose Fred.

The best thing for your DS is to keep well away from Fred. It WILL affect his future if he teams back up with him, and I know this through bitter experience.

Another factor is that kids like this will start doing drugs, if he isn’t already. He likes to be the big bully man and the two quite often go together.

Keep encouraging your DS to join other clubs with dare I say it, normal boys with healthy normal interests.

At the moment it’s short term pain for your DS for long term gain.

It only took me a couple of minutes if that.

It’s hard but he absolutely has to stay away and he needs lots of praise for this. Real guts.

he will find new friends in time but at that age - well any age - it’s very hard

does he have any special interest or hobby - a new club can be a way to make new friends ?

any family you can mix with a little more?

You certainly shouldn't have been involved to the point of texting their mothers. They are 14, not 6.

The other two boys stick with Fred because it's easy and it's safe. If they choose your son, Fred will bully and smear them too. Eventually the behaviour will pass what they can tolerate but until then, your son just has to wait it out.

What the other boy said is true - your son did ditch them. He broke up the group. For excellent reasons, but that's not something 14yo pick up on.

Good luck to your son. It's a tough time.

Way too much unnecessary information. He’ll learn to navigate friendships himself.
There was a time and place for Fred. The sad part is that Fred was probably using distraction as a tool to hide a learning difficulty or something similar.
The others won’t be long in leaving Fred behind, the class clown isn’t good.

It's so sad to see your child hurt and lost. But his maturity is showing by stepping away and making that choice, and he will be grateful for it in the long run.

Making new friends is just something he has to navigate, and he sounds like a lovely boy who will get there. Getting mums involved is probably not a great idea at this age.

End of y9 is a perfect time to move school.

There isn't really much you can do to interfere with teenage friendships. Just be supportive. Encourage him to make friends outside of school. But things will change a lot, friendships in school aren't going to stay the same for several years. People change and grow up at different rates.

Thanks for all the encouraging and helpful replies, and the ones that are understanding. Really good to read, thank you.
Re a few posters picking up on texting, all I've done is text one mum to ask about meeting up; I am on very good terms with her having known her from primary school when her DS and mine were good friends in years 5 and 6. We've often texted each other over the years and we get on well in person.
As for Fred's mum, she texted me. I didn't text her.

DS doesn't want to change school.

Would a change of tutor or move across to the other side of the year help? Might help to meet new friends that he hasn’t had much to do with till
now.

My son moved tutors in y10 and it was the best thing he could have done.

I think at this stage just reassure him that he's in transitory year.

As soon as they are in their GCSE classes they will be reconfigured and year 10 will bring new opportunities for friendships because the classes will all get much more mixed-up.

It's also likely Fred's behaviour will catch up with him soon.

Can he keep any low level contact with the others? Through online gaming or such like?

Keep the door open for if/when they mature as well but don't rely on this happening.

Are there any lunchtime clubs at school he can go to as this is a hard time to feel on your own (and probably attracts others in similar circumstances).

Well done to your lad. My comment (have teens a little older but girls) year 9 friendships groups are certainly not fixed. Sociable dd2 is still meeting new friends adding to her group in year 12. Both mine had a real shift in friends in year 9. Dd2 left a horrid group entirely and started from scratch in year 8 and now at 17 has legions of friends. So I would plug away at new friends.

Retired teacher here. And from a mum with a teenage son who was horribly bullied who is now an adult.

Respectfully you need to step back. Relationships change so much in years 7/8/9. Not only are children maturing in different rates, they’re also navigating a world of new beginnings…a new school, new friendships, new relationships, different teachers, different classes , often the first time of being independent at coming home, using a canteen etc. it’s quite common that lots of children go to primary school together and leave year 6 the best of friends and then they all seem to turn on each other in these school years 7 and 8 particularly, it’s so common . It’s because say “Liam” is maturing and ready to leave that school group behind and “Max” can’t cope with that. He’s wondering why they’re not all playing football in the playground as an example and “Liam” would rather be off talking to the girls in the lunch queues, or his new friend that joined from a different primary school knows everything about Manchester United too.”Max” and “Liam” start to fall out, it gets worse, mums get involved, it worsens the whole situation, the kids resent the other one for getting their mum involved and then the teachers get involved and it becomes a whole mess. Get to about year 9 ish and all new groups and friendships have been established. Primary school friendships are long gone, barely acknowledged.

I made terrible mistakes, even as a teacher, with my son being bullied. I became the helicopter mum I never thought I would.I should have given my son the chance to sort it out. I was very early on, onto the school etc. it’s heartbreaking when it’s your child. You never want your child to be hurt , left out or unhappy. It’s very sad to say that these are the facts of life. You yourself how many times have you felt those emotions and you’ve had to deal with them. They’re not the type of emotions that people need therapy for, they’re everyday emotions that we all experience. Ever had a friend let you down? Ever felt a stranger was just that little bit rude to you? Ever felt that you’ve been left out of a conversation? Ever felt you weren’t included in something? Ever got home and thought that was a really rough day today, no one seemed to get my point of view? There’s endless examples and sadly at some point we have to let our kids begin to “ feel” these emotions. If we don’t., we end up with adults who can’t make decisions, can’t stand up for themselves, adults who become a bag of anxiety because they don’t have the confidence or resilience to shrug it off.

I will say your post was a hard read, I found it a little hard to follow. From what I gather your son just needs to say away from the whole friendship group. Sad as it is if he enjoys those boys company, at the end of the day, they’re still with Fred, it’s never going to work. That’s like saying “Emma” bullies me horrifically at work but I like “jenny” and “Natalie “ who hang around with her. But we all know that whatever I’m saying or doing is going to back to “Emma” just so she can hate on me some more!! You see what I mean, it doesn’t work.

If you take any advice, honestly step back from high school. I quickly learnt my mistakes with my first child. Looking back it took a while for him
and me to grow into that era of our life. It wasn’t the hand holding primary school. The parents aren’t there at the school gates, the teachers do want the children to be independent. When my second started I had absolutely nothing to do with it. I went to the meetings I had to and other than that I let him crack on with it . And today he is the more confident out of my two adult kids. And he didn’t go without his fair share of troubles either…I think I just gave him the space to sort it and the support I did do was from home rather than involving everyone else.

it will pass OP, as horrible as it is now 🫶

Oh dear, OP. A difficult situation.

My understanding is that your son was already distancing himself from Fred of his own accord, so what you said was mainly echoing what he thought.

Fred's subsequent behaviour towards your son was awful and it's a shame the other two boys didn't take stock of the situation at that point. But it is quite possible they are a bit afraid of him and don't want the same to happen to them.

My advice is to suggest your son does not shut the door completely on the other two, in case one or both reaches the same decision, but he needs to move away from the existing dynamic that includes Fred. I don't think you were wrong in what you said.

Can you encourage any other sports or hobbies after school or at weekends? My DS had a difficult time at school and really enjoyed rollerblading, so we found a club that was open on Saturday afternoons in another town. He made a couple of friends there, and looked forward to meeting up with them on Saturdays in person and would catch-up over Xbox with them after school a few times a week.

It didn't really solve the school problems we had, but it helped for him to be less lonely and to know that school friends aren't the be all and end all.

This sounds so hard. I don’t know how big your son’s school is but my son is in Y9 and there is definitely still some shift in friendship groups. I would suggest your son tries to find a group who shares an interest with him (in my son’s case it’s been rugby) as that will give him an opening to join in their conversations. Good luck.

So sorry to hear what your son is going through. He is definitely handling things correctly.

i was in a similar situation to your son and it can be tough. He will come out the other side.,

He will be lonely and it will take time, but he will make new friends. It is not too late in year 9 for friendship changes, it just feels as though it is. I'd ask the school to look at seating plans and put your Ds with like minded other lads, and ask his form tutor to support in terms of where he sits in tutor. He needs a safe place at break / lunch if he is by himself- he needs a plan essentially.
A hobby outside of school could be great.
He's right to have moved away from Fred and these other lads have chosen Fred, not him - that's their choice and not worth spending the time on them any longer as it won't go anywhere

I agree with Rainbow. He has to navigate this himself.

I remember dd2 in year 8 holding in the tears and her face crumpling as she walked up the path as she had been cruelly ousted from her “friendship”‘group who then delighted in spreading mad rumours about her so no one else would be friends with her either. Even a young teacher who saw it play out told her to stay strong and she was better than those vile girls.

She started from scratch socially in year 8 and is now incredibly popular (unlike the horrid group who are not). She was adamant that DH and I were NOT to get involved. Friends of mine were always running to school for much lesser things than this but actually dd was right. It was her battle. Was bloody awful at the time though I had sleepless nights.

You are far too involved, you are making everything worst.

You want to help him? Encourage strongly clubs outside of school, where he can build separate friendships, and be less bothered about school life. And let him be.