Reform aren't a proper political party - why are we pretending they are?

[Slightyamusedandsilly]

Farage isn't a real political leader. He's a hype 'em up, sound bite merchant. When he was an MEP he rarely bothered to attend. He just wants the kudos without any desire or ability to do the actual work.

The councils run by them are chaos, having increased council tax massively despite promises to the contrary.

Reform is just the next iteration of the National Front, BNP, English Defence League. Farage is no better than Nick Griffin.

Lots of NHS workers do.not agree though... This one definitely doesn't, and nor does anyone in the team I'm in. Every profession has its outliers.

It would be churlish to suggest that intelligence and imagination are proportionate.

The whole country was run like a business for 14 years with the whole "austerity" thing. Trump is currently trying to run the US like a business.

It doesn't work, because countries and public services are, fundamentally, nothing like businesses - primarily because the measures of success are both wildly different and mutually-exclusive.

Think about it for a second; "running it like a business" involves charging the maximum the customer can pay while delivering the minimum-possible service they will accept. That's exactly what the NHS was turned into under the Conservative government, and it's the exact opposite of what you want a public service to do.

Then there needs to be a balance and more accountable managers.

No, there needs to be an acknowledgement that the goals of businesses are fundamentally incompatible with the goals of public services. Those goals inform the entire management structure, and as such you can't improve one by making it work like the other.

Anybody who tells you otherwise doesn't understand business or public services, or both.

I don't agree with you. Managerial capabilities are generically measured, regardless of its governance in the public or private sector.

Don't vote for him then OP. Its very simple.

I don't think the OP was worried that she was going to vote for him, or be made to vote for him. 🙄

These threads just insult people's intelligence. People can make up their own mind who to vote for. They don't need some lefty on MN telling them how to vote.

I find him quite entertaining!

OP’s logic is. I don’t like Reform so they aren’t a political party.

Good job OP doesn’t get to decide what constitutes a political party.

Newsflash OP. Reform are a political party. Hope that answered your question.

Everyone moaning about Reform getting too much airing and then making the umpteenth thread about them so we can all talk more about them

So intellectual. Great reasoning skills.

Also factual?

More relevant though tbf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgdlv56y2wo

I think Reform are an embryonic party and as a consequence their structures/constitution are not going to be as developed as the established parties. But if the party is successful over time that will change.

What is more worrying if you are anti-Reform is that the main parties seem to be concentrating on details like this, rather than actually concentrating on implementing policies people want to head Reform off at the pass.

Ultimately Labour take votes away from Reform by implementing policy the electorate wants. Not by trying to make claims that they aren't a real party because of details in their constitution.

Just countering a point with 'You're wrong' isn't analytical. Say WHY.

No. Opinion. If it is factual, give actual facts as GasPanic has done.

I’m so angry with the LibDems. If there has ever been a time in history when more people have felt disenfranchised in this country and in need of a centrist party, I don’t know when it was.

Their insistence on and promotion of queer theory, rampant trans right activist agenda and complete disregard for women’s safety and dignity through a refusal to admit the need for single sex spaces means I cant and vote vote for them at any level in local or national government.

Given the utter mess Reform have made in Warrington, where the Reform
led council have admitted their ‘commercial strategy has failed’ and that they are in £1.6b debt, I don’t think Reform are a credible party at all. They’re just BNP ‘reformed’.

Well, as much as I agree the LD hold a key position, I think it's myopic to focus solely on one aspect of their policy. If you ONLY support a party if it 100% aligns with your belief system, you will end up disenfranchised.

The Libdems have been absolutely explicit and clear that they don’t want my vote or the vote of anyone who doesn’t believe that any man who says he is, must be treated as a women for all purposes. Such being the case, it would be obtuse to look at their other policies or vote for them.

If a political party - like the Greens too - make it clear that you subscribe to their religion wholeheartedly or you are evil and unwelcome, then their other ‘policies’ are irrelevant.

Exactly.

And I don't think they're an embryonic party either. They're just the new iteration to the list of failing neo-Nazi parties of the past (EDL, BNP etc). One fails and the supporters shuffle over to the next version, hoping it'll work this time.

And the issue this time is that they have really wealthy and powerful backers.
The question is: are our democracy and institutions robust enough to stop them. I can't overstate enough what an existential disaster it would be if they won, especially for us women.