To take child out of nursery?

[AleaEim]

Hi,

Looking for advice, enlightenment, help!!

My dd, 14 months has been sick back to back for the last 5 weeks since starting nursery. She goes there two days a week and is supposed to be going to a childminder 3 days a week but hasn’t managed to complete her settling in sessions with the CM as she’s been sick every single week. On mat leave, I took her to baby groups/ soft play/ playgrounds every day and she only had a couple of coughs and colds the whole year, I’m not a germaphobe, I frequently forgot to wash her hands and often met up with other parents who’s babies had runny noses etc so I know she is quite resilient when it comes to illnesses (until now). I’m very close to just taking her out of nursery and switching to childminder full time (she’s told me she has a full time place), I realise it’s not guaranteed that she won’t pick up things there but surely it won’t be as bad as the CM only has 2-3 other children (all over the age of 2.5) whereas the nursery has 10-15 babies under 16 months all in one room.

DH thinks we should wait until the end of the month to see if things improve (that means she’d go in this Thurs/fri and next) as we have paid them until then, I think sending her in to a cesspool of germs is just going to lead to another two weeks of illnesses when she could start with the CM straight away and let this hell end.

We are both in two minds about taking her out of nursery and switching to CM, the nursery is outstanding rated in Ofsted whereas the CM is rated good. The nursery give the children two hours outdoor time a day in all weather (they really do), it’s family run, they host nice things that have dazzled us such as Mother’s Day parties/ stay and plays etc, they have forest school, baby ballet, toddler football. It feels wrong to just pull her out because they offer so much and dh thinks they have better facilities/ space/ resources than the CM. I think he’s right but also from a developmental POV, the CM will be better for attachment, consistency and her physical well-being if she gets less ill. But why can’t I just throw the towel in and tell the nursery she’s not going back? It’s almost like we have a FOMO.

Its been extremely stressful these past few weeks and I don’t know how we can go on, on top of that we’re both catching things from dd as well and I started back to work feeling dreadful last week and dh has been battling with flu symptoms for two weeks now, it’s put such a strain on us. I’ve also missed two days of work already including my first day, I have to be off today as well as dd is unwell again, another virus! It’s harder for DH to take days off as I’m on a doctorate course so won’t get penalised as much for taking days off but still I have a lot of work to do and need to start getting into a routine now or things will never be done. DH also has an awful boss and the company he works for is not family friendly at all. I’m with the NHS so they’re more understanding.

Part of me thinks we’re mad to just send her back info nursery this week as we could just have the CM if we wanted and it might be much better for us.

Not sure what I’m asking but just wish we could make a bloody decision.

I do understand that some people have limited options. I am sorry if that causes you anxiety, that is really tough.

I would suggest:

• Limiting number of days/length of sessions if at all possible.
• Allowing plenty of rest in the evenings/weekends.
• Allowing adequate time to recover properly from illness.
• Keeping a very close eye on staff turnover/recruitment policies/safeguarding policies. How experienced/qualified are staff? Check out the ratios too.
• Keeping an extremely close eye on any injuries on your child/changes in their behaviour, speak up and ask questions, do not be fobbed off if you have concerns.
• Even better, become a Governor. I’ve done this for the past 4 years at my own children’s school. I scrutinise and monitor safeguarding training and make it known I’m watching out for safeguarding when I’m on site multiple times daily. I have strongly and successfully challenged SLT on first aid/medical inconsistencies, one of which actually involved my eldest, driving school-wide change. They needed to do better!

You have every right to have a good read through policies on the website, keep a close eye and expect sufficient answers to any concerns. Trust has to be earned.

The anxiety is being caused by you continuously trying to derail this thread with your opinions about nurseries. You’re telling parents - who you are now agreeing for the most part have no choice in the matter that their harming their children by putting in them in nurseries and that the only time this would be beneficial would be if a parent was was abusive at home and then saying “sorry if this causes anxiety”. I’m surprised with your multiple academic accolades that you can’t see the link between the two.

you also dont seem to understand that all trials have limitations and the conclusions made in a trial setting does not always apply to a real life. Furthermore all children are different. You’ve made it clear you would never want your child in a nursery which is an opinion you’re entitled to have. There are many others here who have had positive experiences with nurseries and whose children are thriving. You cannot caterogically say that every single child under the age of 3 in a nursery setting is not thriving simply based on trial data.

your posts make you seem out of touch with the reality of what most families in the UK are dealing with - including your list of mitigating factors for children in nursery which I’m sure most parents would be doing anyway where possible (except for becoming a governor)

your entitled to your opinion and I’m sure you already know by now I disagree but don’t say you’re sorry that this may cause anxiety when you’ve repeatedly been the most vocal and extreme voice on this matter - which coincidentally isn’t at all what the OP is about .

I’m not sure this is true, although I’d be interested in the science of immune system development. My eldest didn’t attend nursery, was rarely ill and hasn’t had a day off since starting school. I know everyone’s different but I wonder whether young babies and toddlers are more likely to catch things than slightly older children.

I do feel sorry for parents who experience anxiety due to having limited choices, that is sad. They have every right to have greater freedom of choice and not to be priced out of that.

Facts aren’t always convenient, and experiencing anxiety is normal when something doesn’t feel right. Society actively teaches mothers to ignore their instincts, and shames those who won’t. It’s actually entirely normal for a mother not to want to be separated from her baby/toddler for hours on end and to be very concerned if they are continually ill. A mother’s instinct is to protect the health of her own vulnerable dependents, which this OP is rightly questioning.

I couldn’t care less if you think I’m out of touch, I’m absolutely someone who can think for myself and resist both governmental and societal brainwashing and shaming.

I want more parents to push back, believe in themselves and feel as empowered as I do that they are actually best placed to care for their own babies and toddlers.

On and off I could deal with but so far it’s been every week, the only week she wasn’t sick was when I took her out for one week, she went back in and came down with bug few days after. I think my worry is it’s been every single week and she’s so far only been in two mornings a week for settling in period. So it will just worsen when she’s in longer days I’d imagine?!

Yes I believe they are. They lick everything, sneeze on each other and I think they have weaker immunity and capability to fight infection.

There's loads of studies on the impact on ear infections in kids age under 2 - just Google it, they'll all come up!

And no I'm not super privileged, I also work full time, but have used childminders.

And they are different how? Do children not get sick at childminders? Or school? I work part time so my dc have only ever done nursery for 2 days per week maximum. But I’ve had to work and actually I’m not ashamed to admit I enjoy my work/life balance. I want my dc to grow up seeing me work. The level of shaming on this thread is vile.

At 14 months if you've got a childminder you like i'd go for one consistent setting. The nursery sounds lovely but I'd swap them over when they are 2-2.5 and going to get something out of the activities...

I hate these smug replies "nothing beats mum" which is just another stick to beat mums with who have no choice but to go to work.

And for some people nurseries are the option they have. There's a shortage of childminders and certainly where I live, none of them had availability and not everyone either has family to help out.

YANBU I'd switch to just one provider until she's a bit older, so CM only until at least 2yrs old. Did this with my Son and no sickness problems like you've experienced.

Not smug, just stating the obvious. Oh and I hate smug health visitors questioning SAHMs about when their 2 year old is starting nursery, why aren’t they at nursery, despite their children being healthy and despite being told they are exceeding all the checks at that age- no thanks!

Same. Very confusing for the child. Just put her to the CM full time

Hi op

DC1 started with childminders and was still ill during the winter months. We then switched to nursery after having bad experiences with 2 different childminders.

We sent DC2 straight to nursery and yes she is ill during the winter months. It is a still a smaller nursery.

I think all kids are different tbh as to whether they continue to get illnesses.

My DC1 who was childminder then nursery is very rarely ill now at age 5. My best friend’s DC who was only ever with childminder 2 days a week until school is constantly ill still age 7.

Your statement that childminders are better than nurseries is also false. I had awful experiences with childminders and we have found nursery much better for development but more importantly, much much safer.

A good childminder is better because they can form a stronger attachment with fewer children, provide a less hectic and more homely, personalised environment, and experience less illness due to less children there. Note my use of the word ‘good’.

In terms of development at that age, the most vital things a baby/toddler needs in terms of speech development are an attentive adult talking to them, reading to them and singing to them, coupled with plenty of time to freely explore and play outdoors. A mum or dad (or in their absence, a GP or CM) talking naturally to their child throughout their day, eg when doing the food shop, cooking, going for a walk to feed the ducks, whilst at the park, etc. will result in far better speech development. Unhurried time for 1:1 conversation is vital.

@ThankYouNigel Yes but do consider also that you can’t always be sure how ‘good’ they are. Especially not until you can get a better idea of what they are doing all day and until your child can speak to you more.

We thought our second childminder was great until she wasn’t. She was shoving the kids in front of the tv most of the day for one. And we didn’t realise this until DC started being able to tell us about all the tv shows he was watching. You also have no idea who else is being invited into the house or who they are hanging out with.

I would also argue your view about child being better off with mum is narrow minded. Even if we take other things out of the equasion like paying bills and mum’s mental health, i am proud to continue to work as it has meant i have been able to afford private healthcare for my kids when the NHS has badly let them down, and also that i can save for more money for their future. I have consciously had children in a time where young adults are struggling to afford to move out of home to rent, let alone get on the housing ladder. So some sacrifice now means a better future for them.

14 months isn't old enough for nursery. Some people have no other choice but it's pretty widely known that it's not beneficial at that age. I'd put her with the childminder.

I couldn’t agree more in terms of that was why I decided mine would be with me until they were over 3 and speaking more- it really concerned me not knowing exactly what was going on, and babies and toddlers can’t tell you. I guess personal recommendations from others who’s opinion you trust could help some.

I also couldn’t agree more that yeah, it’s becoming financially impossible for young adults to move out and afford their own place, let alone start a family. I think that is wrong and needs sorting. I think all families with children should receive more financial support, e.g. different taxation, financial incentives, housing discounts, etc. to reflect how much more expensive raising children is.

The smug judgment on this thread is nauseating and inappropriate.
Some anecdotal stuff for you:
My daughter was in FT nursery from 7 months old. My son was in 3 days per week from 14 months old and with a nanny for the rest of the working week.
Neither child was ill much at all. They each got chicken pox. I think they were each off once or twice with a vomiting bug and over the 4 years they were each there they had a handful of occasions when we kept them off with a cold virus.

In terms of attachment profiles, I work in child protection and am very aware of the variety of ways insecure attachments can present. My now 17 and 12 year old children do not present in any way other than securely attached to myself and their father as their primary attachment figures. They have healthy social lives, they do well at school, they are polite and respectful but with appropriate pushing of boundaries through their childhoods (in case it’s suggested they’re compliant because of insecurity in their relationships either us).

Anyone in the position (as we were) of having to send your child to nursery, it is not a bad choice. To suggest it’s only better than abusive parenting is false, cruel and malicious. The right nursery is a perfectly acceptable childcare provision for children and infants.

You acknowledge that it’s impossible for many families not to have two working parents but you continue to shame those who use nurseries. Childminders aren’t always readily available and don’t offer the flexibility of nursery.

FWIW both of my dc attended nursery for two days a week and they are incredibly intelligent, functioning kids who have been socialised from a young age. No issues at all. Anecdotally this is just my experience and of course there will be illnesses, possibly injuries etc but that can happen in any setting.

Youve had one poster tell you how shit your comments have made them feel but you keep ramming home your point to people who in many cases have no choice. Recognise your position of privilege and give it a rest.

Whichever choice parents make, the quality of the providers (and indeed the parents if stay at home is the choice!) is crucial. So it is hard to say which is better .... it depends on what is available locally.
Parents will have different views, but mine is that the smallest of children are better off at home with a parent or individual carer, sharing the day's normal home activities and outings.
The reason I think this is that the brains of little children can become overwhelmed by frenetic activity and need the calm of a smaller setting and a smaller number of people with whom to interact.
As they grow they become ready for the rough and tumble and stimulation of a larger setting.
I also think that the frenetic nature of many children's TV programmes are unhelpful to small brains struggling to make sense of the world around them.
The original makers of childrens TV automatically created gentle programmes as a matter of common sense. It was only as time went by and cartoons and commercial interests intervened that we now have the mind boggling frantic programmes that set their brains racing. No wonder they have ADHD!

I recognise that my views are no longer mainstream and wholly respect the rights of parents to make their own decisions. I am just presenting an alternative view and a plea for gentle environments for small children with their newly developing brains.

See I do think some posters have a bit of a starry and idealised vision of childminders. The reality is that any setting with more than one young child in it is going to have a certain amount of chaos!

The reality is that any setting with more than one young child in it is going to have a certain amount of chaos! - that is true of course, and a lot hinges on the quality of the CM and also of the nursery. But I do think that the presence of a lot of children together inevitably creates an environment where "crowd control" trumps personal interaction simply because of the safeguarding needs.