How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

[Karma1387]

Me and my partner are in a situation where we are looking to relocate in order to move to a Grammar school area. This is going to involve us both having to find new jobs and coordinate a house move at the same time.

Some of my family disagree with our decision to move for the sake of grammar school and don't see how they can be better than a normal comprehensive school.

I am hoping some people on here will have some knowledge on how grammar schools achieve so much better than comprehensives?

Also anyone with experience with grammar schools they could share? From what I have read the class sizes aren't much different to comprehensives and they get the same funding. Is it literally just a case of because they do the 11+ they tend to only take on the more academically inclined kids. Does this translate to less bad behaviour etc compared to comprehensive schools?

The move is going to be stressful with us both trying to find new jobs plus moving further away from both our families I want it to be worth it! Our local comprehensive is awful for results and we want to give the kids the best opportunities.

Personally I would rather homeschool and fully keep them out of the school system but my partner is very against this and is determined we need to move to a grammar school area so any advise to aid our discussion would be amazing!

Are we being unreasonable to relocate for the possibility of grammar school?

I am not going to answer these latest questions because I nolonger trust myself to remain courteous.

But I assume students are doing this with parental permission? Schools can't possibly just be telling a student oh by the way you are showing this random person around the school? Or asking a 5 year old to talk to a random parent about what they think about school?

I just can't imagine if my child came home and said they had shown around or spoken with a random parent about school without it being ran past me first?

Don't we as parents spend their childhood telling them not to speak to strangers?

At our school children are released directly from the classroom to parents in KS1 only.
In KS2 they are let out into the playground and leave once they spot their adult. In year 6 they can leave alone with prior permission.

Your children WILL speak to other parents/adults without your permission and that’s okay!!

You don't have to be courteous I have thick skin. This latest questions and answers have been enlightening and something I will add into my conversation with my partner about schools.

Ks2 is from 7 correct? That seems crazy to me that a 7 year old is allowed to just be in the playground until they spot their adult? How do you watch that many kids to ensure one doesn't leave without their adult or with a random adult? How do you stop kids leaving with say someone who isn't an approved collector?

I appreciate these replies as I didn't realise this is how it was at primary.

You really need to address your anxiety around this.
You are being a bit ridiculous.

My child is often chosen to help at open days and other such events. I’ve never given permission and nor would I expect to. I’m just always really proud that he gets asked!

Im genuinely curious as to what you think is the issue in this situation.

DS2 is at a Grammar for boys. Class sizes are slightly smaller 28 instead of 30 at the comps. I'd say that there is less bad behaviour but it does happen.

Beware though, Grammar school areas take the top 25% which means the local comps sometimes do worse. In our area this is definitely the case. The 3 local comps percentage of 5 GCSE passes is between 25-48% of pupils, compared to 97% at the Grammar.

It's a gamble moving into this scenario.

I assumed they would need permission for your children to be involved in open days or showing parents around? But clearly I am very wrong about this but I am glad I know now so it is something for us to consider.

I think the issue is as a parent I would expect to be asked if I was okay with my child doing open days and talking to other parents etc especially when very young.

I wouldn't be happy if my kids were asked to take part in an open day and I wasn't consulted first on if it was okay. I just assumed schools got permission for everything nowadays.

But I am glad I know that isn't the case!

I’m slightly worried you are using all of this as a reason not to send your children to school.

Why would you not trust a 7 year old to spot their adult and tell a teacher? It’s obviously more of a supervised environment for the younger kids but it’s also part of teaching children independence.

At 7 children should know who will be collecting them from school and be able to recognise them. They don’t need to be approved .
For example, my friend’s husband would sometimes pick my DS up along with his own child if I was working and vice versa. Once we got to KS2 I only needed to make sure DS knew. I never told the school.

If you’re looking purely at exam results, don’t underestimate the number of grammar school pupils who also have private tutors.
DS went to grammar and DD went to comp. We live in Trafford. They’re now early 20s and if you met their friend groups and learnt what they do for a living, there’s no way you’d know which ones went to grammar and which to comp.

But why? Honestly, why is it an issue?

Here we go then. Your expectations of school are the most unrealistic I have ever encountered - and I am a former school governor of a decade's standing, primary and secondary. If your children do go to school, you are almost without doubt going to be 'that parent', constantly on the phone to the head and keeping Google and Microsoft in profit with an infinite torrent of emails and at risk of becoming a vexatious complainant. That being the case, your time would be best spent persuading your DP that home schooling is the way to go for your family.

Typo

7 is still very young? I mean what stops someone taking a child in the chaos of the playground. Or if someone wasn't supposed to pick up a child but your child knew and liked them how are the school handling that? Keeping that specific child inside the classroom to be collected?

I really just assumed until they got close to the end of primary and were preparing for secondary that they were released 1 by 1 from the class.

Personally it will 100% be something I discuss with my partner regarding any school we choose or at least factor into me not going back to a career so I can ensure I am always there early for pickup.

I assume parents are allowed to stay with the kids in the morning until the gates are closed or they are in their classrooms?

Because I don't feel comfortable with my kids talking to adults they don't know. Perhaps I am just odd!

After reading a lot of the latest replies I did comment to my partner that if they go to school the school will hate me!

I appreciate the honesty and I would much rather know what I can expect if we sent them to school. At least its something I am now aware of and can add to our discussion.

Does it help you to realise that the things you have issues with aren't issues for anyone else?

I think you could really benefit with maybe some counselling to address your control issues. Don't be 'that parent'. Your child really, really won't thank you for it.

It will very much depend on your school and the layout.
At ours we have a separate KS2 playground which all children are released into. Parents are not allowed in the playground. They wait outside on the street.
The class teachers come out with the kids and the kids tell them when they’ve spotted their adult.
The older kids (yr5&6) just leave.

In a morning KS2 kids are dropped at the gate. Again, no parents in the playground.
Kids play until the school bell. They then line up and are taken to their classrooms.

Most of year 6 walk to and from school on their own.

I appreciate that when you have very young kids it can be difficult to visualise them ever being independent but you really need to adjust your expectations about what is age appropriate responsibilities otherwise it’s going to be a tough few years.

Just over 2000 children took the test for our local grammar school. There were 60 places. They took the top scoring 60 pupils, so even if they pass the test the child may not get in.
I don't think I would plan where to live around the possibility of getting into a grammar school.

Also, if your children haven't even started primary yet, loads can changed in secondary provision in any area before your child needs to apply for secondary.

My DS helped at a few open days, he enjoyed it. I didn’t have to give permission at primary but did at high school, presumably because their open evening was outside school hours. I had no issue with this as I trust school to keep him safe.
Btw these days children ( yes even ks1) are taught to look for suspicious behaviour such as adults asking to look at their private parts, or asking them to go with them without parents knowing rather than a blanket avoidance of strangers. This is partly because most abuse is not by strangers, but also because the stranger danger message was stopping children getting help if they need it, for example if they were lost.

No it makes me aware of what school policies are like so I am aware and it can be added to my discussion with my partner regarding schools.

Everyone has different issues and opinions on things. Everyone may think me not wanting my kids talking to strangers unreasonable which possibly is a bit OTT in a school environment.

7 year olds being able to be on a playground and leave when they see their adult is probably a much higher concern for me personally since seeing thats how some schools do it.

Translated to 'tell my partner to demonstrate how bad schools are and keep them at home'

Had lots of counselling! I'm not sure wanting to keep my kids safe is controlling however I appreciate everyone has their views and opinions.

Some of mine may be a bit OTT but I would much rather know these things about schools now then after my child starts.

Definitely.
Those poor kids. Home education can be a good thing for some kids but not when it’s driven by parental anxiety or selfishness.