How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

[Karma1387]

Me and my partner are in a situation where we are looking to relocate in order to move to a Grammar school area. This is going to involve us both having to find new jobs and coordinate a house move at the same time.

Some of my family disagree with our decision to move for the sake of grammar school and don't see how they can be better than a normal comprehensive school.

I am hoping some people on here will have some knowledge on how grammar schools achieve so much better than comprehensives?

Also anyone with experience with grammar schools they could share? From what I have read the class sizes aren't much different to comprehensives and they get the same funding. Is it literally just a case of because they do the 11+ they tend to only take on the more academically inclined kids. Does this translate to less bad behaviour etc compared to comprehensive schools?

The move is going to be stressful with us both trying to find new jobs plus moving further away from both our families I want it to be worth it! Our local comprehensive is awful for results and we want to give the kids the best opportunities.

Personally I would rather homeschool and fully keep them out of the school system but my partner is very against this and is determined we need to move to a grammar school area so any advise to aid our discussion would be amazing!

Are we being unreasonable to relocate for the possibility of grammar school?

They are not random adults. Random adults wander in off the street because they fancy it. They are parents considering sending their child to the school. What harm could possibly come to any child talking to another child's parents in front of 29 other children and at least two adults? No battery, swearing or abuse could possibly happen. If you don't get a feel for how the children are when at school, you are missing one of the most vital pieces of information you need to make a decision. You are being quite unreasonable. Do you think schools are staffed to seek permission from 30 sets of parents, some separated so more than 30 communications, every time an adult not on the school staff wants to set foot in a classroom? How would you manage other parents talking to your child in the yard when you are not there?

If your children do end up going to school, you won't know about every interaction they have between 8.50am and 3.20am. Nor will you be able to control what they eat, what they read, what colour crayon they colour with, what material the carpet they sit on is made of, what sex their teacher is, what they eat, or how the other parents earn their living.

Typo

Yes, they only take on the most academically inclined kids, top c.7% of applications in the super-selective school I most recently worked at.
Yes, this does generally (but not always) translate to less bad behaviour and less wasted time in the classroom.
Also the students tend come from families who are willing to push their children hard for academic success.
I often hear people saying "it's like a private education for free". It's really not; these schools are strapped for cash just like any other normal school. Subjects, staffing and extra-curriculars being cut left right and centre. If anything they get less money than a "normal" school as there tend to be fewer pupil premium children who bring funding with them.

Honestly OP you are making such, such heavy weather of this. Pretty pointless trying to pin point which schools will be best in nearly 10 years time. So, so much can change in that amount of time.

Our DDs' village primary was rated Outstanding so became very oversubscribed. Some parents, newly moved into the same village (purely for the school), couldn't get their children in. All their careful planning had been a waste of time.

What do you think the issues are with adults talking to children in a supervised school environment?

Im a governor at a primary school and often take groups of parents around the school on open mornings. We always make an effort to speak to the children. It’s better that they know why we’re in their classroom rather than wondering why strange grown ups are there looking at them!!

I am just really surprised! I assumed with all the safeguarding etc in place that other people wouldn't be able to just talk to your children.

Why would other parents be talking to my kids on the yard and why wouldn't I be there? I assume no other parents are present during school break times (unless they are volunterring and DBS checked) and during drop off and pick up the kids I would be there with the kids so they wouldn't be talking to other parents without me there?

I am aware when they are at school you can't control everything but I assumed with such strict safeguarding measures usually in place nowadays that kids wouldn't be in the situation of talking to strangers whether supervised by the head teacher or not.

OP I think your anxieties are getting the better of you.

move if you need to, to somewhere that suits you for work, socially, transport links, and provides the environment that suits your lifestyle. the rest will fall into place and you will look back and wonder what you got yourself in such a state about.

My children have often given parents tours of the school etc- no, I would not expect parents of children looking at joining the school to be DBS checked and even if they were this doesn’t actually mean a great deal.

I am just really surprised given the safeguarding usually in place nowadays that other parents can talk to students in their classroom. I would have assumed that maybe they had open days in which parents gave permission for their children to attend and speak to other parents. I didn't assume parents would be brought into classrooms with the ability to talk to any children they want.

But its helpful to know that is the situation in schools.

Oh blimey. Your anxiety is radiating through every post

Just whatever you do if you decide to let your kids go to school you need to trust them. Because you're going to drive yourself and them crazy

But I assume you have given permission for them to do that? The school hasn't just picked them to do it without checking you were okay with it?

I meant more I assume volunteers in the school for say the day helping out are DBS checked not all parents or prospective parents. However I did assume parents had to give permission for prospective parents to be talking to their children whilst in the classroom.

Trust my kids or trust the school?

Which is why we will possibly apply out of catchment and just travel until we can afford to move. Unless we decide to move into a grammar area as that would require a bigger move which we would ideally do before our sons primary school applications are due next year.

Prospective parents attending an open day is not a safeguarding issue per se.
The events are highly controlled and visitors are not left to wander the school alone. They are supervised by a member of staff or a governor.
What safeguarding risks do you think there are in this situation?

Here's a possible scenario.

The school day ends. The children are playing in the yard, waiting to be collected. You get stuck in a traffic jam for two minutes. Another parent says 'hello, X!' nicely and with good intentions, because they live round the corner from you and recognise your DC. They are not DBS checked, because they do not work in or volunteer in the school. They are just a regular adult being sociable.

There are an infinite number of similar scenarios like this, because life is unpredictable.

Based on what you have revealed here, and what me and most other posters have told you, you are approaching the whole question of your DCs' education in a way that is illogical and poorly informed.

im also a volunteer at a primary school and yes I’ve been dbs checked.

I don’t think I’ve ever given explicit permission for my child to speak to an adult at school- I’ve never given explicit permission for them to speak to someone behind us in the queue in tescos either but they always have. Prospective parents, Ofsted inspectors, days when parents are in watching performances:assemblies- speaking to adults is a great skill to have. And all done in the open- we aren’t talking about private 1:/1’s here. I honestly can’t see the problem you either trust the school or you don’t. As I said before though- your anxieties are taking over and stopping you from thinking rationally I think.

Why would you need to get permission for that sort of activity?

Both.

Another example. At my DD's primary, they had a meet the teacher and see the kids' work drop in thing in Reception or year 1. I was able to go but one of the other mums couldn't as she was working. Her child was so visibly disappointed that of course I made a big fuss of her (I did know her a little). As I hope the other mum would have, were the positions reversed!

I may be being very silly here but when I was at school kids were released to their parents from the classroom? Surely kids aren't just having a roam around the playground with parents picking up and taking their kids?

Or at least not until they are approching maybe late year 5 or 6? 5-6 year olds can't possibly be allowed to just roam the playground with other adults coming and going?

I also wouldn't expect an adult who 'recognised' but didn't know my child to be speaking to them when their parents aren't around.

And they just arrange these things and have 5-6 year olds talking to strangers without their parents permission? Or can parents opt out?

What do you think happens on an open day? The ones I liked the best had year 6 children ( usually in pairs) show us around. Sometimes with a staff member, sometimes without, but what exactly do you think is going to happen? Even if someone did have nefarious intentions, they’re hardly going to do anything with all the other prospective parents around in the few feet between classrooms ( which obviously had an adult in).
Sometimes they also got children in other classes to speak to us about what they were doing and what they liked about school. I’m sure they picked out the more confident kids that would say nice things about the school, but you can tell if a class of kids generally look happy.

OP, I implore you to take seriously what you are reading on here and learn from it. People are giving you sound, well-intentioned advice based on their professional expertise and experience as parents. Your imagination is out of control and running amok. That will do your children no good at all, in the short or long term.

Here's the reality. You and your DP have plenty of time to research schools, visit some, ponder home schooling, and move house before your two-year old is four. Thousands of families do so every year.

You can choose to do the same, or you can whittle your pregnant self into the ground inhabiting a world that is populated entirely by demon-like humans out to get your children.

But other parents aren't really "strangers" are they?!

I'm just not sure having strangers talk to my very young children is okay without parental permission.

I wouldn't dream of talking to another child I didn't know.

They are to the child and technically to the school if its a prospective parent?

Oh OP, that's such a shame. I'm maybe not the most gregarious and trusting person always myself, but you can get such solidarity from other parents, and teachers, and it's really important kids can trust other adults in appropriate circumstances.