How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

[Karma1387]

Me and my partner are in a situation where we are looking to relocate in order to move to a Grammar school area. This is going to involve us both having to find new jobs and coordinate a house move at the same time.

Some of my family disagree with our decision to move for the sake of grammar school and don't see how they can be better than a normal comprehensive school.

I am hoping some people on here will have some knowledge on how grammar schools achieve so much better than comprehensives?

Also anyone with experience with grammar schools they could share? From what I have read the class sizes aren't much different to comprehensives and they get the same funding. Is it literally just a case of because they do the 11+ they tend to only take on the more academically inclined kids. Does this translate to less bad behaviour etc compared to comprehensive schools?

The move is going to be stressful with us both trying to find new jobs plus moving further away from both our families I want it to be worth it! Our local comprehensive is awful for results and we want to give the kids the best opportunities.

Personally I would rather homeschool and fully keep them out of the school system but my partner is very against this and is determined we need to move to a grammar school area so any advise to aid our discussion would be amazing!

Are we being unreasonable to relocate for the possibility of grammar school?

Yes I can imagine that to be the case. But it's not the same as saying that all grammars (that was the implication when you spoke of the "grammar system") have small classes and bad behaviour is (always) dealt with quickly.

What size of class is your experience in grammar terms? I cannot imagine it is common to have <20 in a class in a system so many are trying to access?

With all due respect, if you are the type of parent that is considering home schooling and doesnt like the idea of their kids doing fractions at age 5, and is considering homeschooling, you are the very opposite of a grammar school parent who will be pushing their kids with extra tutoring from year 1 to be ahead and pass the grammar entrance when they are 11.
Saying this as a child of such a parent who went to grammar and hated it and now have a more child centred view of education and would never send my child to the pressure cooker that is grammar school.

Can you afford prep school?

OK so Chatteris to South Lincs is not a massive move. I wonder if some of us thought you were further away (like near Chelmsford or maybe near Kent). Tbh tho if you don't like living in Chatteris I don't think you will enjoy living in South Lincs either.

Is the ££ on housing a big barrier to Chelmsford – i don’t know the area but I think you said your DH's family is there and it’s a city so might offer more to you as well?

@Thechaseison71 that isn’t true though. In a poorly performing comprehensive there will be lots more time spent on crowd control. They will likely have a higher turnover of staff. Less supportive parents. A keen student might be called names & made fun of for wanting to achieve.

In a decent comprehensive it’s ok to work hard & want good grades so it’s easier. Same goes for a grammar.

This is why contextual offers are important. It takes that into account. In some less affluent areas the A level provision will be patchy & fewer subjects offered. So it might be hard to get triple science, further maths & even MFL. Then they’re up against students who have had all the options open to them.

Honestly we would love to. We have one 10 mins up the road which is relatively affordable. But with a minimum of 2 kids I think it will be too much financial pressure and the last thing I want is to put them into a prep and not be able to commit to the cost and have to pull them out.

@Karma1387 I am pretty sure the comprehensives in Cambridge are pretty good.

From my experience (talking to others) a prep school directly teaches their children stuff for 11+/13+ entrance.

No its not hours away we are trying to keep reasonably close to my family. We have mainly been looking at Grantham as its even cheaper than Chatteris. But it would still involve us both having to move jobs unless we are happy putting close to 55,000 miles a year on the car (which its a leased car so we couldn't do anyway)

I have to admit I have looked at the area around there and its not my favourite. It doesn't seem like I would like it anymore than Chatteris. Its only appeal is the school!

The housing cost foe Chelmsford is just too much (its also even further from my dad who I am very close with). My partners family are there but the cost of houses is crazy!

But a prep would be academic earlier than a state primary, yet you think primary schools are academic at a too young of an age.

There are some good ones in Cambridge. But the house prices that go along with that and living close to the city make it a very hard move!

I don't disagree with that. As I say everything is about trying to find an option that suits the kids and also mine and partners differing opinions on school and education. I would rather keep them at home, obviously partner disagrees. So we have been exploring every option possible to find something we can agree on.

Does your partner understand that grammar schools are state schools? Does he have particular grammars in mind? Did he go to one?

I sometimes find when discussing schools with people they are talking about how schools were when they were at school.

I actually taught at my old school (a grammar) for a while. It had changed hugely! Mostly in good ways but the competition to get in was much fiercer.

We don't have grammar schools in my area. My girls went to the local comprehensive. There was a huge selection of children there (and a range of parents). Ultimately the girls did very well and made good friends who had similar aspirations to them. They both got contextual offers for the universities they chose. As a parent, wherever your child goes, I think you just have to put in quite a bit of effort to support them and ensure they are able to take advantage of any opportunities offered. We were lucky enough to be able to pay for some tutoring in subjects where they needed extra help.

You would need to be very careful with research regarding Cambridge. It has a fast growing, rather transient, highly educated population, school building hasn't kept pace with house building and catchments can be small.

I don't agree with over tutoring for grammar school. Isn't the whole point that they are naturally intellegent so its somewhere they will thrive?

How can you expect a 5/6 year old to care about an exam they will take at 10! They should be playing and developing emotionally and physically. Perhaps I'm not the ideal grammar school parent, as I have said it is my partner that cares for about the grammar school.

Should not wait until you identify if your child will be academically capable? If not they won’t pass the 11+ and could then be in a worse position of being in a (what is it?) a technical school?

We have twins who went to two different grammar schools. All grammar schools are not equal!
The crux of it is you are right. More academically inclined kids. Fundamentally as they are bright they finish the curriculum before other schools so more time to revise for final exams.
I would say after experiencing two local private schools and two local grammar schools - academics and clubs at grammar schools were better

Do you have any montessori primaries near you? I would have sent my child there or a waldorf school if any were nearby.

My area lost grammar schools. It’s very unfair that only certain areas have this option for very capable children who want to learn.

I'd like to disabuse posters of the opinion that it is more affluent parents who can afford the tutoring and therefore the children pass the 11+.
We're considered hard up, our children had no paid for tutoring, just help from me (I had to be taught non verbal reasoning by a friend, I was hopeless!) My DC picked it up very quickly and came out with exceptional grades and went onto university and good careers. They far out perform us in earning power. They are self motivated and we supported them as best we could.
We live in Kent (always have) and were very lucky with the local grammar schools, all within walking distance.

He was meant to sit the exam but unfortunately due to a family split it didn't happen. He came out with all As and A* despite going to state.

Yeah he is aware they are still state schools. If he had been able to sit the exam he would have had the chance of going to KEGS in Chelmsford and I think he wants to offer our kids the best he can as he didn't get that.

He would prefer to move back to Chelmsford so they have the option of KEGS but I refused based on the high cost of housing meaning I would have to go back to a full time job and career vs the likelihood of them actually getting into such a selective school!

I offered Grantham in Lincolnshire as an compromise but neither of us are keen on the area or job opportunities so we feel a bit unsure of the committment to an area we don't really like.

That is the issue with Cambridge. It would be a big struggle to move closer to it but a low chance of being accepted out of catchment with the amount of housing development vs schools.

I don't have to imagine. I've actually been that kid in both situations so I know perfectly well thanks. Probably more personal experience of exactly that that 99% of people on here

It's the comment of grammar schools throwing the rest on the scrapheap . If as many on here say a clever child will do well anywhere ( not that I personally agree) so they should be ok in a comp.

And less academic kids wouldn't suit the grammar anyway so irrelevant to them

No nothing like that near us that I have found when looking.