To think male nursery workers should be banned for safety reasons?

[Carla786]

I KNOW most men who work in them are fine but sexual abuse in nurseries is overwhelmingly committed by men. No more men, much less abuse risk.
Yes we need more CCTV etc to watch bad women but it cuts SA risk immeasurably.

We can still have male primary teachers etc kids are old enough to speak up then.

And yes, you can ban on the basis of sex for safety reasons. In women's refuges, eg.

Yes!

That's very telling.

And yes, I totally get people moving though it's inconvenient. It would be much better to have the option of all female-carer nurseries.

Male Primary school teachers are ok cause kids are 'old enough to speak up'
You have no idea!!!!!
The majority of children will not 'Speak up'

Im not saying there shouldnt be male teachers.
Im saying your ignorance is quite something!

Not "because they are men". Because they pose a greater risk.

You're phrasing it wrong.

If women posed an increased risk in certain areas of the workplace, it should be acceptable to stop them also. It's about risk. Similar to the argument re trans in womens toilets. Most women don't feel safe with a biological man in their spaces. Why are so many women okay to impose this on their vulnerable children when they're not accepting of it for their own safety?

Maybe we need stronger education for children.

There is a charity who said teaching toddlers empathy in nurseries helps to lower attacks on girls later
Maybe it needs to become a priority.snd respect for girls drummed in.

I was told some awful things being said by year 6 primary schools boys to the girls and when I told the school I got silence back.

Another teacher said it's only banter

Women are more likely to be bullies in the workplace should women be banned from working? They can all stay at home with their children protecting them from the males (potential kiddy fiddlers)

Absolutely. We need more staff. Only 2 staff for 16 three year olds. If a child needs changing due to having an accident in the toilet, an adult goes to change them where they are (in the toilet).
The other adult then has 15 children to oversee. The soiled or wet child can't be brought back into the room with the other staff member and children. They have to be cleaned up where they are. This can take a good 5 minutes! The adult with 15 children is merely fire fighting at this point, trying to keep them all safe, so can't be watching what is happening in the toilets.

This doesn't take into account the large number of children age 3-4 in a nappy. Its not dignified for them to be changed in the classroom even if you do have a screen. The toilet door is open obviously, but staff are vulnerable. Until funding is addressed, ratios will never improve.

I'm referring more to being physically violent, which is what SA and rape are, towards other people. In which case, yes. If women were frequently in the news for SA other members of staff then yes, it should be acceptable. As it happens, it's men that are frequently reported for sexual harassment in the workplace.

See the recurring theme here. Men.

Im just not down with discrimination.

The CCTV should be available on request line an SAR

App is an overreach. And not sure how it work (live-streaming from a dozen different cameras or having multiple TB of footage per day)? Other people’s children would also be visible.

If there is a stereotype of caring being women’s work, does this mean we need to recruit more men in nurseries?

But childcare is already seen as women’s work, then removing the very small number of male staff would make very little difference, right?

For a significant number of children, not involved in the child’s life at all.

Men are statistically more of a risk but the common denominator across all these incidents of SA in early years is lack of robust safeguarding. Better safeguarding including appropriate cctv and the other suggestions on this thread would have reduced the likelihood of these males and females offending. You would think by now all nurseries would have these things in place but obviously not all do. (Also shocking that concerns were raised about this man and were ignored).

Given that most SA happens outside nurseries banning men wouldn’t significantly reduce it overall and would cause more problems for society, but implementing better safeguarding would reduce most of the risk in nurseries.

It legally enforces the stereotype. Of course it would make a difference.

Women's toilets aren't work places and are generally seen as safe spaces for women.

Nurseries aren't comparable.

It doesn’t stereotype childcare as women’s work. If anything it stereotypes men who want to work in nurseries as paedophiles, but I’m ok with that if it protects children, which it would.

Of course it does.

Robust safeguarding changes would protect children from ALL types of abuse and there wouldn't be any need to challenge gender equality and discrimination laws in the work place and open it up to also target women in the work place.

Robust safeguarding should already be in place. Unfortunately, paedophiles (overwhelmingly male) are still able to abuse kids. Yes, in a perfect world, all nurseries would have perfect safeguarding measures in place and able to stick to them, but it’s not a perfect world, they are overstretched and underfunded and children are being abused as a result.

and that is what needs to change. Robust safeguarding, better funding etc and harsh consequences if not stuck to because even if men were banned, children would still be at risk of cruelty, neglect and abuse as things currently stand.

So do you agree that women's 'safe' spaces are such because no men are allowed?

Yes. It still doesn't change the fact that nurseries aren't comparable and it would be highly unlikely that the law will change to deem nurseries as women only spaces.

Or how other types of abuse exist and will be allowed to continue if safeguarding policies aren't robust and it isn't funded well.

Focusing in on just one (awful) form of abuse isn’t the answer because it doesn’t prevent the other abuse that can happen if there aren’t proper safeguarding protocols in place.

If the government really cared they would be reducing (not increasing) the safe ratios and properly funding ‘free’ hours. But even so settings can and should be ensuring basics happen even if it is tricky. We would never dream of changing a child without at least one other adult in line of sight - if that means other children having to be moved to a different activity to make it practical then so be it.

we also need for a lot of people to grow up and stop thinking that raising concerns about something you have seen is “snitching” or in some way negative. Better to raise concerns and be shown wrong than ignore and be shown right.

Okay but are you not just skirting around the fact that less children would be sexually abused if men didn't work in nurseries?

But as awful as sexual abuse is why are we just focusing on that? There is other awful abuse that sadly can happen is protocol isn’t right.

A baby shouldn’t have been allowed to die because they were left tied down and suffocated. That was at the hands of a female staff member so your ban wouldn’t stop that. Should we ban all women too?

In all honesty, I wouldn’t send my child to a nursery where there was a male nursery worker. Wouldn’t employ a male nanny or childminder. People can be as offended as they like but I agree with you OP.