AIBU To Think Remote Work Isn't Sustainable?

[HighlandsExpat]

I work a very stable, secure 9-5 corporate job. I have been in this role for 1.5 years. I work in the office three days a week but my team is in another city so I don't see them in person.

I realized today I often go the entire workday without speaking! Which is probably good for my facial wrinkles but actually detrimental to my mental health. I am social outside of work and feel happy with my life and friends, but do feel like my job is incredibly lonely and isolating. Which is odd because I just got a promotion and am taking on lots of responsibilities, but hasn't translated into actually meeting new people or even having to speak more. I send a lot of emails and am chatting on MS Teams all day. I know we aren't pre-pandemic when it was five days a week and you would sort of naturally form relationships at work, but I cannot imagine being in this job in a few years.

AIBU to think this isn't sustainable? Do others feel this way sometimes? All of this is triggered because an old colleague emailed to wish me happy birthday and organized a virtual coffee chat. It made me a bit sad because I haven't had one of those (coffee with a colleague) since I left my old job.

You said you'd hope for a job with mandated office days.

So you have a job where office days are optional?

Then go into the office!

And if you're one of those people who says 'yeah I could go into the office but no-one else will be there' then you need to ask yourself why other people don't want to and why you think it should be mandated that they should.

As we've grown as a team I need to see them more at the moment we do a day a month together, but I think there will be a time when we go to a day a week. But it's horses for courses really. Just because you don't enjoy it that doesn't mean it isn't best for your organisation, even if that meant you moving on. I save about £3k a month on office rental for starters.

The OP is hybrid. She’s in the office more than out of it, therefore not ‘remote’. She’s complaining about not speaking to anyone all day! That’s either the nature of her role or down to the OP.

I am also at the different site to my team. There are plenty of other colleagues to speak to, if I bother my arse during the day.

Your problem is nothing to do with WFH. Your problem is that you’re in a different city to your team and you aren’t interacting with people who are in the office with you. You’d have the exact same problem if you worked in the office 5 days a week.

I suggest you move or commute to the city where your team are.

Thank the Lord I'm not working in an office with some of the argumentative twits on this thread.

I am ND and find it hard to fit in anywhere so I hate office days. I am exhausted trying to mask my ND and as I don’t fit in I do t really have work friends. I’d rather be at home where I can be left to just get on with work. I get an extra hour in bed and as an insomniac it really helps.

The OPs problem in her post was that she didnt get a F2F "happy birthday" or have a coffee with someone. (Honestly, who gives a fuck about those anyway?)

Pretty naive and silly reasons for the OP to hate on WFH just because it doesnt suit the OP's "nuances" or preferences....

You work to work - not socialise - and its clear the OP isnt socialising with anyone in the office she goes to - which begs the question as to why go to the office at all then?

This is about the OP whining about the birthday, lack of coffee with a colleague and a moan about WFH. Fuck all else.

I agree fully with your post. WFH is very bad for society and very bad for mental health. It’s also very convenient for people who use WFH to mind children, do school runs, it’s also fabulous for civil servants and the like.

I think a semi flexible hybrid WFH can be beneficial. To both employer and employee.

I don’t have children so don’t use it to do school runs. My husband is a civil servant and is in back to back teams calls and doing a ton of work so no idea where you are getting this from. I prefer it and would prefer a fully remote setting.

Are you fucking ok hun? WFH really seems to be touching your sensitivities and affecting your reading capabilities. I never said all, I said most. I also never said I was talking about or for you.

not sure why you posted either? It was just your opinion, why should we be grateful you posted

Nuance goes over our heads 🤣🤣 it's mad the things people say when people don't agree with them.

Well I'm someone who totally understands and supports what you say! While most who wfh seem to relish the avoidance of the real world with its noise, traffic, interaction with other humans etc, I agree living in a virtual bubble isn't natural or very healthy.

It can become too easy to get used to just hide behind and turn off a screen so the ability to react and rationalise in real situations can become lost and feared.

Simple things like the patience needed to wait in traffic, queues, make small talk, a noisy environment, thinking on your feet, could become a challenge when you get ised to not having to be in those normal situations.

It can also cause a sort of fatigue amd self isolation, being comfortable at home and not wanting to change, go out for even fun things.

Just something I've observed with a few people who wfh, they're the ones who cancel arrangements rather than friends who don't wfh.

Expecting a backlash of not true and I'm not saying it's everyone, simply something I've noticed, especially a couple of friends who rarely like to leave the house now to do anything. They used to love coming out and having fun but now can't be bothered to even get changed, their own words. Xxx

@Egglio me too! I can remember after Covid when they didn’t make everyone come back to the office one of the team leaders said some of his extroverted team members were suffering and I said well I’m
am introvert and I’m not cannon fodder for your extroverts. He took my point.

WFH has been more than beneficial to my mental health. We aren’t all the same. No hours of grubby damp commute, extra sleep, whatever clothes you like… no headaches from Carol in the office screeching on for attention for hours whilst the important man also bellows on his phone all day, to the point you get a headache through earplugs.. no other people’s stinky lunches.. I suspect I am autistic but offices gave me sensory overwhelm and rage. I used to cry when I got home. Going hybrid when Covid came has improved my physical, mental and domestic health to a point that I would never return to a full-time in office role. FWIW I am also a Civil Servant (without kids so no school run), and I can assure you our team is busy, not lying in bed or out at yoga or shopping all day long or whatever jealous people accuse us of. Yes I can stick on the laundry and do a face mask, prep dinner on my lunch break and so on, but we do actually do our jobs. It would be obvious very quickly if we did not. I am a better employee with better mental health and a better member of society because of WFH.

My admin job in the courts I talk to some solicitors and court staff at courts and tribunal centres. So I talk.

My team leader lets me WFH 2-3 days a week. My team has a Teams chat so we can ask questions/clarifications with each other.

We were asked to WFH two days this week due to issues with the electrics

My office is an hour’s drive from home and car park only has spaces for a fifth of staff. Parking all day is £7.50. Plus £3 in fuel.

@Cailin66 "WFH is very bad for society and very bad for mental health. It’s also very convenient for people who use WFH to mind children, do school runs, it’s also fabulous for civil servants and the like."

What evidence do you have that is WFH "very bad for society?"

It reduces traffic and therefore reduces pollution and energy consumption. It allows people to have a better work/life balance if they are not spending hours commuting every day. As someone who has worked in offices and remotely, I can confidently say that I am more efficient and far more effective working remotely. The amount of time and effort wasted in offices by people chatting and interrupting others, striding around claiming to be busy, pulling people into meetings just because they're there and petty office politics is huge.

Also, working remotely is not the same as working from home. Sales reps and their managers typically work remotely and have done so for decades - they're out seeing customers rather than sitting in an office. The same applies to people who repair and install equipment, or who train others. If people want some sort of interaction during the day, they don't always have to literally work from home. They can get out of the house and do some of their work in a cafe or hub or other shared space, or they can do their 8 hours (or whatever) in their own time and then use the time they would have spent commuting for something more sociable.

I now live in a rural area that has excellent fibre-optic internet access. The impact of remote working on the local community here has been very positive. There is a communal hub where people can rent a desk or a small office by the hour or by the day. People meet for coffee or lunch in the local cafe - spending money that goes into the local economy instead of into the corporate coffers of Pret or M&S or wherever they used to buy their lunches when they worked in an office in the big town. People have time to buy groceries locally instead of rushing into the "big town" supermarket on their way home, again putting money into the local economy. Sports and other activities can take place at 6pm instead of having to cancel because half of the participants would previously have been stuck in traffic on their daily commute. People are beginning to have a social life outside of work (or rather, they are regaining the time that allows them to have a life outside of work) and social networks and contacts are replacing work-based interactions.

@Chinsupmeloves "Simple things like the patience needed to wait in traffic, queues, make small talk, a noisy environment, thinking on your feet, could become a challenge when you get ised to not having to be in those normal situations."

Why have these become "normal situations?" Why are people sitting in traffic or in queues? Why are they working in a noisy environment? None of these is necessary. None of these is good for mental health.

The OP @HighlandsExpat left this thread at about 6am when people disagreed with her

usual thing
OP AIBU
MN Yes
OP <flounces>

I think it’s clearly unsustainable for you but for the majority of people it’s made work bearable for the first time ever. It’s made me so much happier! I love being in office 2 days a week and home the rest of the time. The balance suits me and my lifestyle. See if you can change jobs and find one of the many that are stipulating an unwanted RTO.

I'm astounded at your response as why to the question 'waiting in traffic queues, dealing with the public and hence noisy environments'

It's because many of us have to do it, every day, yes because of the careers we chose to want a vocation and help people rather than working for a business to make profit for the higher management.

Such fools were we, on behalf of the government employed sector, to know we would be working long shifts, many years without normal inflation of wages, travel to work, face abuse from the public, test every fragment in your body thinking is it worth it.

Then, when you've realised you've saved lives, made a real difference to others, made real human connection of gratitude, those moments make it worthwhile.

So yes, of course many of us do have to put up with commute, tasks and environment noise stress then more on top in after work life of queuing because we rush from our jobs to do errands for ourselves and others which can't be done wfh.

It's a privilege to ask the question 'why does anyone have to wait in queues and endure noise and traffic'.

Basically the world/economy couldn't survive without people going out to work to provide the services for hospitals, education, retail, emergency, building etc wfh. Dur...

You are clearly an extrovert and get energy from being around others.

Many people though are the opposite and being in open plan, noisy offices drains and stresses them.

Of course home working is sustainable!

No need to be offended. WFH may not be sustainable for you. Many people on MN say that they'd go mad if they weren't in the office regularly. However, for others it's the perfect fit for their personalities. Avoiding the noise, distractions, wasted time, extra costs of commute, wardrobe, etc—it all makes sense for many of us. We don't mind the solitude, or we get enough of other people in other ways, without going into the office.

Whether or not it's sustainable or the best situation for every job in other ways is up for debate, but obviously it's worked well for some roles for quite some time. I very much appreciate having the option to wfh.

@Chinsupmeloves

"Basically the world/economy couldn't survive without people going out to work to provide the services for hospitals, education, retail, emergency, building etc wfh. Dur..."

Like it not, society, rightly or wrongly, will always have people in those jobs - by default, design or the inability of the workforce to command better paying jobs.

Lets face it, unless a person is in management, all the jobs you listed there are remedial, lower rungs of the ladder. No one has to stay in those jobs - they can elect to change.

So just because the OP thinks things are unsustainable doesnt make it fact - and neither does your statement either. @Havanananana 's post is bang on. You can take umbrage with it, but their view is just as valid, even if that grates on you and anyone else that perceives WFH as a slight.

@Chinsupmeloves "So yes, of course many of us do have to put up with commute, tasks and environment noise stress then more on top in after work life of queuing because we rush from our jobs to do errands for ourselves and others which can't be done wfh.
It's a privilege to ask the question 'why does anyone have to wait in queues and endure noise and traffic'.
Basically the world/economy couldn't survive without people going out to work to provide the services for hospitals, education, retail, emergency, building etc wfh. Dur..."

You've not addressed my question - why has all this become normalised? Why are people spending hours commuting, rushing from jobs to do errands, or working in noisy environments?

Of course not all jobs can be done from home, but nor do they need to be located at the end of a long commute. I posted earlier on the thread that this was not the norm 50 years ago. Healthcare was largely provided locally - the GP typically worked from home, with a surgery in the front room. Midwives were so close to their patients that they could cycle to them. There were cottage hospitals. Schools and shops were all local. There were local builders and other trades.

Somewhere along the line, it was decided that since many people now had cars, things could be centralised and rationalised. Politicians and bean counters believed that money could be "saved" - but this came at a cost to the employees and to the customers and patients. For the employee, this means the cost of owning and running a car, or paying for a season ticket, plus the "cost" of the time lost spent commuting, and the "cost" of having to change one's non-work life (e.g. not being able to get to an evening class or parents' evening), and the "cost" of the stress of trying to get to work on time and trying to rush from jobs to do errands, to get the kids, to get home etc. It is no different for the customer/patient, who now has to drive miles to get to a supermarket, school or healthcare provider, with all of the associated financial and mental "costs". For many this is almost impossible if they have no car, or there is no reliable public transport.

I'll repeat something from my earlier post. The situation in the UK is not typical in the rest of much of Europe. There are places where emergency services like the fire brigade are entirely voluntary - a bit like the RNLI in the UK - and staffed by people who are working locally. There are countries where a commute of over 20 minutes is considered unacceptable. Society and the economy are not collapsing in these places - on the contrary, these communities are strongly bonded together and local economies flourish. If anything, it is the UK that is in danger of suffering lasting damage as normalising the situation that you and others describe is not healthy and in the long run is not sustainable. Try stepping off the hamster wheel for a minute or two - if you can find the time.

Why do you believe that because something is the case for you then it must be the case for everyone else? If remote work doesn’t work for you then by all means go into the office 5 days a week. But mind your own business about what is “sustainable” for everyone else!