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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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12
cardibach · 13/02/2026 11:34

RootRot · 13/02/2026 11:19

You’re not disagreeing with me then, I think he expressed himself like a dunce, and he hasn’t opened up debate because people are focusing on his use of inflammatory language. And his incorrect stats.

But we both know exactly what he’s trying to get at.

The rate of immigration, the rate of change, the fact that we have too many economically inactive people (and continue to allow more people in without solving that problem).

I can’t take seriously the opinion on immigration of a man who is an immigrant, or on ‘economically inactive’ people from someone who pays zero U.K. tax but takes massive subsidies from the U.K. tax payer, sorry.
It’s the messenger as well as the way he presented the message.

randomchap · 13/02/2026 11:39

1dayatatime · 13/02/2026 11:25

So if you see immigration as a net positive for the country, would you be in favour of higher immigration? If so by how much more would you like the population to increase to - 100 million, 150 million, no limit?

Alternatively if you don't see immigration as a net positive then presumably you would be in favour of reducing it?

Its one or the other.

You're over simplifying. Are you incapable of nuanced thinking?

We've been importing labour for generations. It's been a good thing for the country. Look at the how immigrants work in the care industry and nhs.

No one is suggesting we import 80 million plus people.

With such idiotic hyperbole you're making yourself look foolish.

If you want a respectful and constructive discussion, don't include such utter bullshit

cardibach · 13/02/2026 11:40

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 11:33

Yep. If it’s good for it to keep going up why not the higher numbers? If someone would sell this in maybe it’s a goer but so far no one has.

If I enjoy a crisp anpple and think it contributes to my overall happiness does that mean I think it would be even better to eat nothing but apples and eat them in bigger and bigger quantities? No.
Immigration is falling. Nobody is saying having unlimited immigration is possible or even beneficial. Just that immigrants are not ‘colonising’ and are not the root of all the country’s woes.

DuncinToffee · 13/02/2026 11:41

Forgot to credit the source for the colonisation reply

https://www.bearlypolitics.co.uk/p/when-sir-jim-ratcliffe-plays-the

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 11:47

randomchap · 13/02/2026 11:39

You're over simplifying. Are you incapable of nuanced thinking?

We've been importing labour for generations. It's been a good thing for the country. Look at the how immigrants work in the care industry and nhs.

No one is suggesting we import 80 million plus people.

With such idiotic hyperbole you're making yourself look foolish.

If you want a respectful and constructive discussion, don't include such utter bullshit

Don’t wig out at a question because it is a problematic one for you. Either you’re arguing for an increase in the working age population as someone did below or immigration is falling. How can you do both at the same time?

Which do you prefer

randomchap · 13/02/2026 11:53

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 11:47

Don’t wig out at a question because it is a problematic one for you. Either you’re arguing for an increase in the working age population as someone did below or immigration is falling. How can you do both at the same time?

Which do you prefer

I'm not wigging out. You're just using a slippery slope fallacy. Either discuss it openly and honestly or accept that your opinion will be ignored

MissAustenMadeAQuilt · 13/02/2026 11:53

DuncinToffee · 13/02/2026 11:24

Farage fact checked on his 'Ratcliffe is right' comment

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1kgn2pjpyxt

Surely there are no longer people walking around who believe that BBC Verify is impartial! What a joke, It's for simpletons who still believe the BBC has no agenda!

God love their simple minds and hearts!

The only way in which it might be useful is to believe the exact opposite of what it "verifies"

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 11:56

randomchap · 13/02/2026 11:53

I'm not wigging out. You're just using a slippery slope fallacy. Either discuss it openly and honestly or accept that your opinion will be ignored

It’s a question which seems to be too problematic so you’re just throwing around stuff like this. I can’t even it’s so far off base but one last try

What does ideal immigration look like to you? In terms of numbers. Over the next few decades

randomchap · 13/02/2026 11:56

MissAustenMadeAQuilt · 13/02/2026 11:53

Surely there are no longer people walking around who believe that BBC Verify is impartial! What a joke, It's for simpletons who still believe the BBC has no agenda!

God love their simple minds and hearts!

The only way in which it might be useful is to believe the exact opposite of what it "verifies"

So as you can't refute the information you attack the source?

PandoraSocks · 13/02/2026 11:58

MissAustenMadeAQuilt · 13/02/2026 11:53

Surely there are no longer people walking around who believe that BBC Verify is impartial! What a joke, It's for simpletons who still believe the BBC has no agenda!

God love their simple minds and hearts!

The only way in which it might be useful is to believe the exact opposite of what it "verifies"

Could you direct posters to a fact checker you find acceptable?

The BBC does seem to have an agenda at times, I agree. Look at the endless platforming of Reform.

MissAustenMadeAQuilt · 13/02/2026 11:58

God bless you, @randomchap .

Yes, BBC Verify is impartial-you're quite right!

I hope the fairies at the end of your garden enjoy frolicking with unicorns-they're all real too you know!

Too sweet!

randomchap · 13/02/2026 11:59

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 11:56

It’s a question which seems to be too problematic so you’re just throwing around stuff like this. I can’t even it’s so far off base but one last try

What does ideal immigration look like to you? In terms of numbers. Over the next few decades

Enough legal immigration that the country needs in terms of labour. Whilst clamping down on illegal immigration

I'm no statistician so can't give actual numbers.

Why do you think done people are aiming for a population of 150 million?

Araminta1003 · 13/02/2026 12:01

I am willing to bet that if we kicked every immigrant and dual national out tomorrow, the country would immediately collapse entirely. Tells you all you need to know.

nomas · 13/02/2026 12:01

BlueJuniper94 · 12/02/2026 20:31

I would rather people made a sincere effort to be truthful. But facts alone are not enough to inform opinions. I think he just said a number off the top of his head. I don't think he's particularly wedded to that particular figure and I don't think he cares and I don't think anyone else cares other than people who disagree and hope that this will discredit him enough to persuade one or two people to reject his premise.

It's interesting that the media seem to be emphasising problems with his choice of language over highlighting his factual inaccuracies.

Seriously, why does this fuckwit think he gets an opinion?

He lost the right to an opinion as soon as he fucked off to Monaco to be a tax avoider.

PandoraSocks · 13/02/2026 12:01

MissAustenMadeAQuilt · 13/02/2026 11:53

Surely there are no longer people walking around who believe that BBC Verify is impartial! What a joke, It's for simpletons who still believe the BBC has no agenda!

God love their simple minds and hearts!

The only way in which it might be useful is to believe the exact opposite of what it "verifies"

Other fact checkers are available. Here you go:

www.thenational.scot/news/25850401.fact-checked-every-nigel-farage-claim-jim-ratcliffe-video/

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 12:04

randomchap · 13/02/2026 11:59

Enough legal immigration that the country needs in terms of labour. Whilst clamping down on illegal immigration

I'm no statistician so can't give actual numbers.

Why do you think done people are aiming for a population of 150 million?

Ok and as those people age how do you resolve the issue of needing more people? And the next generation after that, what stops you needing increasing labour?

1dayatatime · 13/02/2026 12:04

nomas · 13/02/2026 12:01

Seriously, why does this fuckwit think he gets an opinion?

He lost the right to an opinion as soon as he fucked off to Monaco to be a tax avoider.

Well INEOS does employ 4,000 people in the UK, so I would think that his opinion is fairly relevant.

randomchap · 13/02/2026 12:06

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 12:04

Ok and as those people age how do you resolve the issue of needing more people? And the next generation after that, what stops you needing increasing labour?

I'm not answering you until you respond to my questions. It's how debate should be conducted.

Upupandaway10 · 13/02/2026 12:07

AmberDreams · 12/02/2026 19:19

He never said he was apologising. He simply stated he could have used different terminology but his points remain the same.

What he said is demonstrably correct. It is an indisputable fact that immigration has totally changed some areas of the UK. Whether you see that as a problem or not is a matter of personal opinion.

He also stated that having 9m people on benefits is not sustainable. I’d argue that is also true.

I think it’s a good thing that an influential businessmen feels able to speak up. The notion that everything is OK and that we have an unlimited capacity to absorb more people is ridiculous.

Yes agree.

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 12:08

randomchap · 13/02/2026 12:06

I'm not answering you until you respond to my questions. It's how debate should be conducted.

Look back you were talking to @1dayatatimere the numbers. So you can continue with that with her as you want. I think she has a point so picking up from there how will you resolve needing ever expanding labour needs as people age?

randomchap · 13/02/2026 12:09

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 12:08

Look back you were talking to @1dayatatimere the numbers. So you can continue with that with her as you want. I think she has a point so picking up from there how will you resolve needing ever expanding labour needs as people age?

Nope, not engaging. You're refusing to hand a civilised discussion. Lol

nomas · 13/02/2026 12:10

1dayatatime · 13/02/2026 12:04

Well INEOS does employ 4,000 people in the UK, so I would think that his opinion is fairly relevant.

Irrelevant, plenty of companies/leaders bigger than that stay in the Uk and pay their taxes.

Jim can fuck off. They should remove his knighthood to boot.

cardibach · 13/02/2026 12:12

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 11:47

Don’t wig out at a question because it is a problematic one for you. Either you’re arguing for an increase in the working age population as someone did below or immigration is falling. How can you do both at the same time?

Which do you prefer

Immigration is falling, not becoming negative. Ergo the working age population is still increasing, just by a smaller amount.

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 12:12

randomchap · 13/02/2026 12:09

Nope, not engaging. You're refusing to hand a civilised discussion. Lol

Geez hard work or what. It’s a difficult issue who knows you might solely have the answer, and you could sell it in remarkably well and all is resolved.

What a shame
lol

cardibach · 13/02/2026 12:13

MissAustenMadeAQuilt · 13/02/2026 11:53

Surely there are no longer people walking around who believe that BBC Verify is impartial! What a joke, It's for simpletons who still believe the BBC has no agenda!

God love their simple minds and hearts!

The only way in which it might be useful is to believe the exact opposite of what it "verifies"

Facts are neither partial nor impartial. They are just facts. Or do you have evidence that BBCVerify tells lies?