To be confused by 'high earners' complaining about taxes?

[tutuland]

So high earners pay lots of tax. The top 20% pay for 70% or whatever the numbers are.

But (beyond printing more money) isn't the money there high income people make just coming from the paying public? No matter who you work for, your company's profit is just an accumulation of normal people paying for things.

So ultimately, isn't it all our money anyway? Just beacuse the game is rigged and you get paid 400K for management whatever, it doesn't mean you're more deserving of that money than anyone.

VAT is one part of the system. Income tax and National Insurance raise significantly more revenue. Ignoring them while claiming to discuss the ‘big picture’ is disingenuous.

The top 10% of income tax payers contribute around 60% of all income tax. The proportion of indirect tax a low earners pays is higher relative to their salary but they do not pay not pay more tax overall.

You are the one holding them up as paragons of virtue. Those are normal jobs done by normal people who are no better or worse than the rest of the population.

Everyone who contributes to the best of their ability should be celebrated.

If you're paying that much tax you must be a very high earner. If more people paid for their care (when they can) it would vastly reduce the waiting times on the NHS. It wasn't until I went private that I fully understood the cost of a one night stay and simple procedure. Anaesthesia, consultant, surgeon, bed, food, meds, nurses, auxilliary, aftercare etc etc etc. The entitlement some people have is partly why we're in the mess we're in. The "why should I pay when I can get it on the NHS" is an attitude that stinks. I've seen it with friends' parents who are very comfortably retired with a large healthy pension, yet insist on getting any freebie they can.

The "why should I pay when I can get it on the NHS" is an attitude that stinks.

😂😂😂

The NHS exists for EVERYONE who is entitled to use it. That includes the people who pay the most tax into the system.

HTH

Honestly OP some of the replies here are embarrassing. The amount of people defending the rich and who are against taxing them, the knots they tie themselves into ti defend that position. Who would seriously choose to be such a bootlicker?

The way society and particularly British society has always worked is there are the elite and the rest from which they extract wealth, through consumption or through labour. Things are messier now with the rise of the middle class, there are far more ways to spread propaganda now and make certain higher earners things they're above the rest of the plebs, but they're just tools so the real elite can hold onto their power and wealth.

That's the way it always has been and the way it still is now and anyone who doesn't see it is either ignorant or has been duped.

That’s what it’s become, yes. And no one would be turned away. It wasn’t why it was initially set up.

Also If you look at countries who pay at the point of service their healthcare is vastly better and more efficient. I’m gobsmacked by ppl who moan about waiting times etc when they could very easily bypass all of it. I’d not dream of sitting in an endless queue if I had the means not to have to.

It’s not about paying taxes, people understand why we need taxes.

It’s the people who try to avoid their contribution to society that are annoying, whether it’s the tax evaders or the people who think working is beneath them.

Your post just confirms that not only do many people want money handed to them for nothing but they also want the tax payer to hand over that money happily.

Are you planning to give the high earners a tax rebate on the tax they pay for the NHS that they are no longer allowed to access?

And you’re calling high earners ‘entitled’. Jeez!!!

Edit, Double post

Your extremely simplistic and childish views which seem to be based on the fact that you are not a high earner but are resentful of those who are.

I'm a solicitor.

not all, no. My dad‘s retired and for not much more than a monthly Sky package he pays for private healthcare for him and his wife because he recognises that there is somebody else who may need that Nhs slot just as much if not more than he does and has not got a pot to piss in, so why should he take up that space? I guess it comes down to priorities. He’d rather spend that hundred odd quid on Healthcare than a TV package.

@Soberinthecity Me and dh are retired. We pay a lot for health insurance because we want any health need attended to. Quickly. We are well aware that’s queue jumping. Yes, let others have the nhs and be number 6,000,001 in the queue . So generous of your dad to remove himself and pretend it’s altruistic!

Why is one pound different from another? Why should some have 40, 45 or 60% tax applied to them? Why should 2 people in a large house pay more than 6 people in a smaller one, with 12 bins outside... We accept that VAT is applied equally to all, why not other taxes? Taxes would still be proportional - those with more income would pay more, but at a rate equal to others. 20% of 200K is still a lot more than 20% of 50K. That is how a nation builds wealth.

What we have is a system where the government builds wealth, and then squanders it, mostly on things the voting public have no say in at all. The argument for our system is redistribution, and that is essentially theft. The high marginal rate segments in the UK distort work incentives and are hard to justify on fairness grounds, especially as frozen levels mean that more an more people are dragged into those bands every year.

A flat tax system with a £20k personal allowance and 27.5% rate on all income above it, paired with 22% VAT (zero-rated on all food and current basics), and a per-resident property tax of about £1,400 per adult, would raise roughly £1tn annually—enough to fund a UK state 25% smaller than today (33% of GDP). Deep aid and admin cuts would balance it. The NHS would be fully funded. This treats every pound proportionally, eliminates distorting marginal rate cliffs, ensures larger households pay more local tax based on usage, and incentivises work and growth.

Are you paying the right amount of tax?

Half of start-ups are not paying the right amount of tax.

https://www.londonandpartners.com/newsroom/news-and-communications/nearly-half-of-london-start-ups-unfamiliar-with-tax-obligations#:~:text=New%20Analysis%20Reveals-,Nearly%20Half%20of%20London%20Start%2DUps%20Unfamiliar%20with%20Tax%20Obligations,feel%20confusing%20at%20the%20start.

Start up Tax "Avoidance" and Non-Payment:

• High Non-Compliance Rates: Research indicates a "small business tax crisis," with 40% of corporation tax due from small businesses not being paid. This trend has risen since the pandemic.
• Legal Tax Minimization (Avoidance): Many startups utilize legal, government-backed incentives to lower their tax bills, such as:
• Aggressive Tax Strategies & Evasion: Some businesses,, particularly as they scale, engage in more aggressive strategies or outright evasion, such as:
• Profit Shifting: Transferring profits to lower-tax jurisdictions.
• "Phoenixism": Artificially declaring insolvency to avoid paying tax debts, then reforming as the same company.
• Cash-in-hand: Under-declaring income, particularly in the service sector.
• Impact: This non-payment leaves HMRC billions of pounds out of pocket, with estimates suggesting £15 billion more could be collected annually if this gap were closed.

It's not automatically queue jumping. I have private health insurance, I get sent to the local private hospital for care. When my mum needed an operation, the NHS sent her to the private hospital and paid the hospital.

Why have you given me a chatgpt list of this?

You've put it in a much nicer way than I've been able to, thanks.

The nouveaux middle class has learned how to extract wealth now, they're pissed off at needing to pay taxes as part of a society. They've benefited from free schooling, health, roads, subsided university- but its all hard work and sacrificed apparently.

@Soberinthecity, I can’t believe you call it freebies. It’s universal healthcare. So shocking! But anyone that questions the welfare bill is accused of benefits bashing. High income tax
payers are considered with contempt, by the likes of you if they dare to use the NHS, that we contribute to.

What you appear to want is a NHS that is a charity donated to low income earners, by high income earners. Would that sort out low productivity? High income taxpayers should then piss off and pay for their healthcare privately.

My DH and I paid £75K income tax this year. We are high income earners, we are self employed. We use both private healthcare and the NHS. I hope that really increases the bad smell in your nose!

What is simplistic and childish? You're the person who cant comprehend what I'm saying so you've decided I'm jealous.

because from an early age its do well and suceed and youll get the rewards, but then when people have to pay so much tax etc after suceeding its like whats the efforts for ?

You do come across as a bit childish, to be honest, while trying to sound grownup and informed. Please do articulate in more detail what you are saying, though.

I've also given you the link to the article.

Interesting response though. Not much to say about your own tax, eh?

Exactly. Complaining about HOW tax money is spent I agree with, a lot of it like the NHS is wilfully mismanaged and isn't spent in a way where people feel the impact of where their taxes are going. But anyone complaining about having to pay them at all I have no time for.

but when its a capitalist society then why the subterfuge when its more along the lines of socialism etc