To be confused by 'high earners' complaining about taxes?

[tutuland]

So high earners pay lots of tax. The top 20% pay for 70% or whatever the numbers are.

But (beyond printing more money) isn't the money there high income people make just coming from the paying public? No matter who you work for, your company's profit is just an accumulation of normal people paying for things.

So ultimately, isn't it all our money anyway? Just beacuse the game is rigged and you get paid 400K for management whatever, it doesn't mean you're more deserving of that money than anyone.

So we both earn £48k, overnight my salary drops to £600 a month SSP due to cancer
In addition we have high costs due to my treatment, for 6 weeks we had an onlver 2 hour round trip to the hospital, I couldn't drive so needed someone to take me....our overheads are not lowered and you don't think during that period someone may need help?
If your income dropped that much overnight, how would you cope?

I am not advocating higher taxes, I'm advocating not wasting money and ensuring benefits are a genuine support when needed for all. IF our welfare system helped people at times of need I'd be in full support, but right now we don't just pay more in tax, we have to pay insurances because that tax isn't there to help us and yet we're not even classified as high tax payers. How is that acceptable?

I'm in the second highest income tax band and haven't had a holiday since 2016 and live in a flat. In every other country in the world outside of Western Europe is be earning far more for the job I do both before and certainly after tax.

And the public services we get for this high taxation are rubbish. Most councils are more bothered about rainbow crossings than pot holes

Economics is not taught in schools in England. It is an A level you can opt to take.

Most of the money that the company I work for makes comes from third party insurers and government healthcare programs…money really just goes round and round tbh.

Which

does this go to show that high earning and being competent at managing money are not at all correlated?

I'm not sure thats fair. You could say that about a lot of jobs. Where would we be without care workers, teachers, police officers. Your contribution to society isnt worth more just because it comes from your wallet.

I’ve been disappointed by the marginal tax rate. A few years ago I got a bonus and lost 67% in total due to the child benefit tax. I think the higher rates are fair enough but the marginal rate cliff edges in the UK are brutal.

OP - would you expect to be paid more in your role if you took on increased responsibility/ got promoted?

Do you generally expect that increase in your pay to actually make it into an increase in your take home pay?

Most people do.

The quirk with high earners is that what they get to keep as a proportion of those increases is much lower than for low earners.

Depending on what you earn, a £10k increase in your annual pay can mean anything from a £9k increase in your take home to a £3.5k increase. For the same pay rise.

To some that doesn’t seem reasonable.

OP have you ever spent your nights worrying about how you’ll pay payroll, or about making the wrong decision and you need to let people go and face personal, professional and financial humiliation? Have you ever loaned money to your work place to keep it running through a tough patch? Have you ever built a company from scratch, hired people, trained them, brought them on your journey and inspired them with your vision? Have you cancelled holidays, worked through your annual leave, turned down invitations, sacrificed friendships to being at your desk?

No? Ok then.

This is exactly what income protection and critical illness cover is for.

and your point is ?

We would be without spiraling benefit bills and a bloated public sector.

Hmmm, let me think...

North Korea is that way➡️

And thankfully I have those in place.

The OP can't understand why people who pay high taxes complain, yet it's very clear that those who pay the higher taxes do not get any aid in time of need. So in addition to higher taxes they also need to pay additional insurances - whereas someone who does not work or earns less would be entitled to claim welfare.
If someone on a higher salary lost their job, they also wouldn't get help. Yet in other European countries, if you lose your job the insurance/welfare system pays 80% of your salary for upto 12 months, it is not unlimited. In times of need you have a safety net.
The safety net is missing in this country for higher earners and tax payers, so yes, absolutely I can see why they complain. It isn't just about the tax levels but the hidden costs like insurance to protect yourself

No but those services can't be provided without tax paid by workers, especially net contributors. Slating net contributors as greedy and selfish for complaining about high levels of taxation due to government failure and waste is morally dubious.

You aren’t actually confused about why people feel that, surely.

If so, let’s do this step by step:

1. Imagine you, now, personally, are told your new marginal rate is 45%+, with no personal allowance, and your access to most benefits had been withdrawn.

2. Would you feel that was unfair or unreasonable? Why or why not?

3. Now someone points out to you that you are actually in the top 1% of wealth and income of everyone who has ever lived.

4. And moreover that you have done nothing to deserve being born as you rather than as one of the 99% worse off.

5. You now feel great, right? All cleared up, and you feel a bit silly that you ever felt differently.

I think substantial amounts were saved on OP's education... don't think she(?) pays much at all

ETA: unless it's a poorly designed bot

This ^ and I’m a low earner! I’m on 15k a year part time and I agree some people work hard for their money and try and continuously better themselves, it is hard when you earn a good wage and half of it is taken by tax.

@TheMerryJoker
clearly I need to be explicit.

the OP proposed that everyone is entitled to the money that high and earners make, and why are they more deserving than anyone else, etc. My response is that a lot of high earners take on a huge amount of personal risk and work extremely hard to make a profitable business and successful employer. If entrepreneurs and senior leaders are not rewarded for their efforts then they’re less likely to bother, and that’s bad for the economy and for society.

Elsewhere, doctors reduce their hours to stay below the £100k cliff edge, and other high earners turn down promotions because the difference that they take home just isn’t worth the extra stress. High tax is a disincentive to many workers and overall that this dampens national productivity.

or maybe, just maybe, some proportion of those benefits claimants would finally get jobs? and then released money would become available for education, police, NHS?

Well to the tax man a high earner is £50k. I think a lot of people would be very happy if £400k was the threshold for 40%/60%/45% tax.

Not sure many on £400k are actually complaining but I think the £100k 60% tax trap is ridiculous. Not everyone is in the same circumstances but some in this bracket will have high childcare / high communting costs that take home after tax and work related costs can leave you not much better off than taking a lower pay / less hours / less stress / less commuting job.

I'm on just over £51k so not by any means a high earner, (not complaining I'm comfortable as live in a cheap area). I'll earn a 15% bonus this year which of course I won't see anything like all of - I earnt this by being good at my job, working away from my family and putting a lot of myself into my job.
I tried to get a GP appointment last month for the first time in 7 years and after filling out the e consultation receive a text essentially telling me to go away as I'm not ill enough. I've paid for private healthcare.
Until the last few years I've always had the view that taxes are the price we pay for a country that works for everyone - but it doesn't work anymore so what are we paying for?

I'm not a high earner but I don't believe high earners should be taxed a higher percentage at all. The essence of a percentage is they are paying more anyway. There isn't a big enough incentive to better yourself in this country in so many ways!

So ultimately, isn't it all our money anyway?

Yeah, and property is theft, Comrade Wolfie!
Power to the people, up the TPF!

If you have childcare costs it’s not a 60% tax trap, more like a 100% tax trap now.

With 1x 30 free hours plus tax free childcare (plus the 60% rate) I take home £0 between £100-135k.