To be confused by 'high earners' complaining about taxes?

[tutuland]

So high earners pay lots of tax. The top 20% pay for 70% or whatever the numbers are.

But (beyond printing more money) isn't the money there high income people make just coming from the paying public? No matter who you work for, your company's profit is just an accumulation of normal people paying for things.

So ultimately, isn't it all our money anyway? Just beacuse the game is rigged and you get paid 400K for management whatever, it doesn't mean you're more deserving of that money than anyone.

It has always amused me how people on very high wages assume it's hard work that got them there and not even a teeny bit of luck.

If hard work = high wages, then nurses, teachers, carers, cleaners, chefs etc would be minted.

I don't think high earners should be squeezed more. They pay more than their fair share and if it's made too unattractive financially to stay here, they'll just leave and pay lower taxes elsewhere. Everyone loses.

Pretty sure I have acknowledged that

paying a significant share
footing a large part of the bill

Most people on MN dismiss it all as luck.

It blows my mind they think they worked harder, and still 'sacrifice' more than nurses and police officers

@SeagullstopitnowThey make their own luck. Most people are not given high salaries on a plate. Talent is usually required too as well as long hours. If it was easy, everyone could do it. They don’t.

Because all nurse and police officers are saints...

My dh is a high earner. We are both left leaning and would not be outraged by higher taxation if (IF) it meant better public services. At the moment it just feels that a huge amount of tax is taken with very little given in return (meaning to everyone, not just to us). As things stand we have to use our income to pay for education for our autistic dc, health insurance and so on. We want this level of service for everyone - I want a functioning national health service, mental health services for adults and children, excellent education for everyone, functioning railways and utilities (am pro re-nationalisation)…but it feels like the government just constantly wastes money and therefore I am not particularly keen to give them any more than we already do.

Who are you at war with?

You make X amount, you're taxed X amount, so now you have X amount to live on. You've not been sentenced to poverty. I'm fairly sure you're comfortable.
It's called taxation and it's the price to pay for living in a fair society.

Although your siege mentality makes me think the problem is you don't want to live in a fair society.

What?

The two people in my company who earn over £500k Pa never moan about tax and they don’t seem the kind of people that would. I feel it’s those dragged into higher tax that have trouble , there is also a malaise we are trying to reorganise some roles with a very strict pay scale system. We are promoting people who are understandably saying after tax, ni and pension , the child benefit I need to repay you are asking me to take on a lot more responsibility for £50 a month, why should I bother.

Well some of them also got there by “luck”
too…surely that applies to fucking everybody then!?

We have a very skewed view in the UK, can’t speak for anywhere else, that if your are a public sector worker; a cleaner or a doctor or a policeman that you are a hard worker.

I have worked across a few sectors, NHS (my altruistic period) being one, and seen hard workers and lazy “more than my jobs worths”
good for nothing’s in equal amounts.

As to whether high income workers have achieved their positions to some degree of luck, I would trust the personal stories of those people, rather than MNetters writing them off as lucky. Really, speak to some of them, be curious, read
their stories. You might be surprised at how inspiring they are.

And if that "talent" is bestowed upon someone that had the sort of start in life that meant they never realised their potential? That's bad luck isn't it?

A person that isn't very intelligent, but whose parents made sacrifices to get the into the right schools, to get them the right friends and networks? That's luck of birth isn't it?

Very few people are genuinely rags to riches thanks to graft. There's nearly always a cash boost, a family to fall back on, coming from the right family or being in the right place at the right time.

People like to tell themselves it is all down to how hard they worked, how many hours they grafted. Ignoring the fact thst there are plenty of people that do the same and never get anywhere

Equally, those people are paying their taxes, so what are you moaning about?

It’s not enough that they contribute more, you also want them to be happy about it.

And no, it’s not fair that many people can work but choose not to do so.

Growing up in poverty financial security means a lot to me, so I checked out the high paying careers in the careers office at school and went for one of them. That wasn’t luck, it was common sense. Or is it ‘lucky’ that I had common sense? Nursing and police have never been well paid but I imagine those that went into those careers checked the salary out beforehand, no?

You’re slipping a bit now and it’s got a bit too obvious, you had a good run though.

I’m not at war with anyone, which was my point. The last time the tax burden was this high was post world war 2 where we were engaged in total war and every financial resource was allocated to the fight. So maybe the problem is when you say fair, what you mean is socialist (or communist in some of your posts) and you’d be right that I don’t want to live in a socialist society.

Can you stop giving them ideas please. A supportive parents who make sacrifice tax is right up this Government’s street.

I also think people’s expectations of what they are ‘entitled’ to is through the roof these days. I’m not that old but even I remember a very different way of life. If my mum was knitting me a jumper she couldn’t afford to buy all the wool at o n e, the lady in the shop used to put the right number aside for her so she could go in and buy a ball at a time and they would all be the same batch number - it’s how I know you have to make sure your wool / wallpaper has the same batch number!! People wouldn’t dream of living like that these days. And both my parents worked full time! Think about how people eat out, buy coffees etc - that just wasn’t a thing. And this isn’t a dog at people on benefits I think aociety as a whole needs to take a long hard look at what’s really necessary

Just to add, my dh is a ‘rags to riches’ high earner. He works his butt off and has done for 40 years. Neither of us have the backing of family wealth - my background is (non-wealthy) farming and his is fishing. He is also mixed race. Yes, he has had some luck, but it was more the sort of luck where someone liked him and gave him a chance, certainly not a nepo baby.

I expect I am considered a higher earner. I don't work harder than people who are middle/lower earners. In fact I work from home on flexible hours, I don't have to commute or stand on my feet all day, I don't have physical toil or work shifts. But what I do do is solve complex problems, with many years of experience in my industry. What my company are paying me for is experience, intelligence and solutions that make everyone money.

But as I said in a previous post, I don't mind paying more tax if my money improves society. What I mind is my wage being systematically ground down by an incompetent, corrupt government. I mind being wealth-shamed. I mind being bucketed with millionaire tax dodgers with helipads in their gardens. I mind not being able to get a gp appointment and hitting massive potholes when I'm driving on roads my tax money is meant to maintain. I'm just a fairly average person, doing a job that's intellectually difficult, and I'd like to enjoy my money in some semblance of peace, without having to justify my wage.

Well said.

Apparently you should be happy to pay even if it is wasted.

Pretty sure someone will be along to tell you that you do not deserve to be paid more than a nurse or a police officer. Those ae proper jobs...

a footballer or celeb is hardly necessary roles for society

Then dont conflate the issue buy complaining about taxation. Complain about potholes and GP waiting times.

Since you're so good at solving complex problems, with many years of experience, maybe you could apply your experience, intelligence and solutions to fix these issues.